Can sneaks survive without HIPS

[seawied]

I have two sneak characters. One is very traditional and relies heavily on Hide In Plain Sight.

The other is focused more on High BAB, and as a result, does not take shadow dancer, assassin, or ranger to get hips. (Before you say it, I know ranger is high BAB, but RP wise it doesn't work with the build.)

While I am able to survive decently at low levels without HIPS, I wonder how hindering this will be at epic levels? The build takes Bodyguard and Whirling Dervish, which will make it killer fast, and it also has Ghost Faced Killer giving it Ghost Step. Would the speed, minor teleport, and ghost step (aka HIPS light) be enough to survive at epic levels? Or am I wasting my time with this build.

[thids]

If your character relies heavily on sneak damage and you dont have feint with really high bluff to fall back on, I'd say yes (when soloing).

[Ivan38Rus]

Depends on the build. Some builds have max hide/ms for utility but when you built solely around SA, then you are going to have a really hard time.

[Thorsson]

The point is that sneak attack requires your opponent to be flat-footed or flanked. If you can't Hide and you can't Feint then you have no way of ensuring those conditions throughout a fight (and even Feint you will have problems if the target is a Spotter).

[Eclypticon]

Bard/R/AT/DSM (or no DSM)

Sorc/R/AT/DSM

Warlock/R/DSM

You will be needing feint.

Non caster sneaks without HiPS are going to have a hard time.

[KhyberKruel]

With warlock/ rogue/ dagger spell you can use the warlock's spell to go invise instead of using hips. Just a thought

[Steve]

With warlock/ rogue/ dagger spell you can use the warlock's spell to go invise instead of using hips. Just a thought

But it is better to go Warlock / rogue / DsM / Shadowdancer. A whole lot better.

I've played a handful of different Feinters, and they are viable, but you have to collect/invest in Bluff enchanted gear, which isn't readily available—sneak gear is way better, believe it or not.

Unless you go HiPS or Feinter, a sneak attack based toon can't solo much, and needs a tank always at their side (which also would need to do MORE damage than your SA toon, else the AI will switch its attention to whichever toon is hitting hardest).

[KhyberKruel]

Considering warlocks can get a hefty dr, invise at will, extra dex, and deal eldritch blast on melee attacks with hideous blow it would be my suggestion if you wanted to make a sneaker without hips.

[seawied]

(which also would need to do MORE damage than your SA toon, else the AI will switch its attention to whichever toon is hitting hardest).

Interesting. I guess this explains why so many tanks have problems tanking for my HIPS sneak.

[Thorsson]

This is not WoW or similar game. The whole concept of "tanking" is flawed thinking in NWN2 (and indeed D&D). The way to gain attention from the AI is to be seen as dangerous, i.e. to do them damage. The only exception is the MaA class, specific to BGTSCC, which seems to have been developed by an MMORPG player. Not many people play MaAs though.

In D&D Tanks have big guns, like in the real world.