Wizards and perform - can't rank

[Hoihe]

Ahoy!

So I was wondering, is there at all any reason someone cannot take a perform rank on a wizard level, even if the rest of the classes in a build consider it a class skill or at least, allow cross-classing?

I remember ShadowDancer had had it blocked too, for some weird reason.

Could this please be changed?

edit: posted in area design first...

[Steve]

Favored Souls as well, even if they multi class with a PrC that grants the skill.

I pinged QC on this weeks ago, asking if Perform could be offered to all Classes, and if not, to explain why.

DG agreed with me; BMD did not. And I never heard back if QC was discussing it.

[Hoihe]

Honestly, In-character, the only skill that should be blocked from cross-classing would be spellcraft because of specialized training. But even then, you can have it available from another class.

Perform, for non bards, is simply knowing some rhythm, having a good voice and the likes. Without a class that allows for it fully, you'd end up at a mere 16.

If anyone is afraid of bards/stormsingers exploiting it, with the amount of bard/stormsinger levels they take, they can easily afford to take 1 storm singer, 1 wizard, 1 storm singer, 1 wizard level. And let's not forget that the wizard PRCs allow for crossclassing too, just not the base class.

Only people who need this are those who take perform for the RP, nothing else. If you need it for power, you can already solve this issue.



And as a side note, for elves... both surface and drow... it is almost mandatory to be able to know some kind of performing art. Singing, drawing, sculpting, dancing, writing stories, story telling... all covered under perform. And whose favored class is wizard? Drow/moon elves!

[Deathgrowl]

There's absolutely no conceivable reason why any class shouldn't be able to cross-class perform.

[Blackman D]

it was because bard songs are broken so high perform with low bard levels makes the songs stronger than they should be

last that was discussed was that ras said he didnt know about that issue with the broken songs and asked for which ones so they could be looked at

if/when the songs are fixed then i dont really care if its added for convenience of leveling but at the moment it would make something thats already broken even worse

[metaquad4]

Soo...the server somehow got the 10+Perform DC change for Fascinate and Cloud Mind that Kaedrin made? Or something else?

Edit: It has come to my attention from a reliable source (bard player) that curse song is the one that scales without bard ranks (like it should ... Is this an nwn2 thing or a BG thing?). Not exactly game breaking, there. And even with that, you can still make those combos with the current classes that get perform (like fighter). Giving it to. . .man at arms, swashbuckler, Arcane Trickster, Arcane Archer, Divine Champion, Blackguard, etc is hardly giving a lot of power, compared to what is already available.

[Hoihe]

Pretty much every class but wizard and favoured soul can cross class perform. I do not see what's so special about those two that fear of potential powerful curse song overpowers RP.

[Deathgrowl]

it was because bard songs are broken so high perform with low bard levels makes the songs stronger than they should be

last that was discussed was that ras said he didnt know about that issue with the broken songs and asked for which ones so they could be looked at

if/when the songs are fixed then i dont really care if its added for convenience of leveling but at the moment it would make something thats already broken even worse

But you can already spread out the levels you can cross class perform with (or even has it as a class skill) and end up at max perform.

Say you go wizard26/bard4. That's easy to max out perform with.

In other words: Do you have any particular builds that would gain from this?

[Blackman D]

well again, i dont care if its added or not if the songs are fixed because at that point its irrelevant

and didnt know about curse song but will add it also

[Hoihe]

well again, i dont care if its added or not if the songs are fixed because at that point its irrelevant

and didnt know about curse song but will add it also

It's already irrelevant, even if no other mechanic is touched.

[Blackman D]

expect the part about getting excessively high DCs with only a dip of bard because they are perform based and not class based like they should be....

[Hoihe]

You can already spread bard levels so it is irrelevant.

And why wizard? Of all classes, the wizard BASE class. Arcane trickster, Archamge etc can rank perform. But not wizard.


Maybe Favoured Soul I can see as that base class IS OP... but plain wizard?

There's nothing in PnP about inability to rank a skill, only that it costs more.

[Blackman D]

then just spread the bard levels around then, its definitely not something that will be changed any time soon, most likely

very little to no reason to touch making perform easier before fixing something thats broken either way you look at it

[Hoihe]

Here's the problem:

I don't want bard levels. I don't even use perform mechanically. However, it makes sense for the character to have it maxed and said character has perform as a class skill due to shadowdancer and rogue.

Rogue and Shadowdancer were blocked from using Perform too, like, ENTIRELY, and it was lifted. Rogue and Shadowdancer have way more synergy with bard than wizard.

[Steve]

...its definitely not something that will be changed any time soon, most likely

Well, doesn't that actually depend on WHO makes changes around here, both conceptually and directly?!? Like, we're talking about 1–3 lines of code, then an update from Duster???