Suggestion: Mystic Theurge

[Dawrf]

Edit: Current suggestion:

Mystic Theurge

Hit Dice: d4
Base Attack Bonus: Low
Fortitude Save Progression: Low
Reflex Save Progression: Low
Will Save Progression: High

Class Skills:
Concentration (Con), Craft Alchemy (Int), Craft Armors (Int), Craft Weapons (Int), Lore (arcana) (Int), Lore (religion) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor ProficiencyMystic theurges gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells per Day:
Level 1: +1 Divine Spell Casting Progression
Level 2: +1 Divine Spell Casting Progression, +1 Arcane Spell Casting Progression
Level 3: +1 Divine Spell Casting Progression
Level 4: +1 Arcane Spell Casting Progression
Level 5: +1 Divine Spell Casting Progression
Level 6: +1 Arcane Spell Casting Progression
Level 7: +1 Divine Spell Casting Progression
Level 8: +1 Arcane Spell Casting Progression
Level 9: +1 Divine Spell Casting Progression, +1 Arcane Spell Casting Progression
Level 10: +1 Arcane Spell Casting Progression

Practiced Spell Caster (Mystic Theurge):
(Gained on level one) Your caster level for the chosen two spellcasting class increases by +4. This can't increase your caster level beyond your HD. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain noncaster-level HD you may be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

Requirements:
- Classes: Cannot have any other prestige class.

- Skills:
Lore (arcana) 8 ranks, Lore (religion) 8 ranks.

- Spells:
Able to cast 1st-level divine spells and 1st-level arcane spells.

Previous post:



It has been suggested before, and I know that it has been rejected previously. However, now that the caster levels are actually used against dispels, I think there is a case to be had in favor of this particular PRC.

So this what I would suggest:

Mystic Theurge

Hit Dice: d4
Base Attack Bonus: Low
Fortitude Save Progression: Low
Reflex Save Progression: Low
Will Save Progression: High

Class Skills:
Concentration (Con), Craft Alchemy (Int), Craft Armors (Int), Craft Weapons (Int), Lore (arcana) (Int), Lore (religion) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor ProficiencyMystic theurges gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells per Day: When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Requirements:
- Classes: Cannot have other spell casting prestige classes.

- Skills:
Lore (arcana) 8 ranks, Lore (religion) 8 ranks.

- Spells:
Able to cast 1st-level divine spells and 1st-level arcane spells.

Were we to consider a hypothetical build of Sorcerer 10/Favored Soul 10/Mystic Theurge 10, we should be able to achieve caster level of 24 for both Sorcerer and Favored Soul. Without the dispel fix, we would be looking at a caster with 'practical' caster level of 30 in both spell books. But thanks to the dispel fix, a regular high level mob with that caster level 25 has 55% chance to dispel each of our Mystic Theurge's buffs. A mob with a caster level of 30 has 80% chance to dispel each of our Mystic Theurge's buffs. Thus, even with their expansive spell book, a single dispel can rob them of all their magical defenses and transform our Theurge into a pulverized pile of goo.

Thus from a power building point of view, it would be wiser to try and maximize one of the spell books. For example with a build such as: Sorcerer 16/Favored Soul 4/Mystic Theurge 10. Hence we are looking at a level 30 Sorcerer without any epic bonus feats that has access to seventh level clerical spells with the caster level of 14 or 18. In other words, a sorcerer that could heal and resurrect their party members, and throw few additional buffs to their summon.

Now, I have to mention that the combination of Divine Power and Shapechange spells is interesting. But then again, the duration of Divine Power even when extended is just six minutes, where as the Shapechange spell lasts for 30 minutes. Thus in order to re-apply Divine Power whenever it runs will eat away your the ninth level spells. Same holds true with extended Regenerate, or any other short lasting spell you have chose to apply from the Favored Soul spell list. (And let us not forget how that regular high level mob with caster level of 25 mob will have a 85% to dispel each of our Sorcerer's 'Favored Soul buffs.' The AI will make those mobs throw that dispel right off the bat - every single time.)

As for Spirit Shamans and their custom Blood Magic feat, it requires you to have nine levels of Spirit Shaman. So, we would be looking at a Sorcerer 10/Spirit Shaman 10/Mystic Theurge 10 with the base caster levels set at 24. With usage of Blood Magic, you should be able to raise your caster level to 28. You get little harder to dispel, but you are still not entirely safe, and spell casting with Blood Magic active will eat at your HP pool. You got '20d4 + 10d8' worth of hit points before your constitution modifier, thus casting a single ninth level spell will deal '3 + 9d8' worth of damage to the caster himself. That is easily third of your hit points gone with just one spell. Casting a heal spell with Blood Magic active will not heal 150 hit-points, it heals 91-140 hit-points. Not to mention that once again, you do not get any epic bonus feats, which means that even with that '+4' to spell DCs from Blood Magic, a single class Sorcerer or Spirit Shaman will still have the higher Spell DCs. Not to mention the all the other possible perks you could have from using any other PRCs than Mystic Theurge.

From the top of my hat, the with the restrictions I have suggested for this PRC, Sorcerer combined with either Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman appear as the most ideal candidates for this PRC because of their shared Charisma-based spell casting. Wizards could be considered thanks to their bonus feats, but it means you have to invest in Charisma or Wisdom and possibly find that specific item to get access to 7th or 9th level spells. As for Druids, their ability to Wildshape is interesting, but you are either limited to the Huge Elemental shapes (Druid 16), or you need to get 25 in Wisdom simply to meet the requirements for Magical Beast Wild Shapes. (Hence arcane spell casting would become secondary, easily countered by spell resistance or dispelled.)

Now, we are still talking about spell-casters here, so any Mystic Theurge you can come up with will be good on the server. However, it is easy to build a spell caster that excels beyond our Mystic Theurge.



I guess that is all I have to say on this topic.

[Tsidkenu]

As a long time player of a 'Mystic Theurge' wizard/cleric I would be delighted to see this class in game.

That said, while the dispel fix does nerf some possibilities of the class the thought of bigby 9 throwing 24 CL sorc/fs divine power nightwalker roflstompers do not excite me in the slightest

If it were an application only class, on the other hand. . .

[Dawrf]

Except that the order of spells would be like this:
1) Bigby's Crushing Hand (Sorcerer: a ninth level spell),
2) Divine Power (Favored Soul: a fourth or a fifth level spell if extended),
3) Shapechange (Sorcerer: a ninth level spell).

Now if our Sorcerer 10/Favored Soul 10/Mystic Theurge 10 has Charisma of at least 28, then he will be able to cast seven level nine sorcerer spells. If you go through the above loop, you only five casts left. And we should not forget that using the quick cast menu to cast spells while Shapechanged or Polymorphed is, as far as I know, considered an exploit.

Thus the above loop only works if you are jumped on by a single hostile enemy. Perhaps when a mob spawns while you are resting, or some impromptu incident of PvP. But were we to consider that impromptu incident of PvP, any of the more PvP-leaning arcane PRCs will cast their 'Bigby Nines' far faster, and they will dispel our Mystic Theurge. Then were we to consider that our caster moves in to beat up a melee opponent...

Caster Roll: d20 + Primary Spell Ability Modifier + Caster Level + 12 + 4
d20 + 11 (Charisma: 28 + 4) + 24 (Caster Level) + 12 + 4 = d20 + 51

Target Roll: d20 + Full base attack bonus + Size Modifier + Strength Ability Modifier
d20 + 29 (BAB) + 0 (Size modifier) + 10 (Strength: '30') = 39

If a caster rolls 1:
Our target needs to roll 14 or higher. (0,35)

If a caster rolls 2:
Our target needs to roll 15 or higher. (0,30)

If a caster rolls 3:
Our target needs to roll 16 or higher. (0,25)

If a caster rolls 4:
Our target needs to roll 17 or higher. (0,20)

If a caster rolls 5:
Our target needs to roll 18 or higher. (0,15)

If a caster rolls 6:
Our target needs to roll 19 or higher. (0,10)

If a caster rolls 7:
Our target needs to roll 20. (0,05)

If caster rolls 8 or higher, the target is grappled.

Thus, from the top of my head, our target should have a 9,25% chance to beat the grapple check.

Now, because that Nightwalker has a Constitution score of 10: our Mystic Theurge will have 20 * 4 + 10 * 8 = 160 Hit Points. (220 if he had Bear's Endurance cast beforehand.)

Our melee build is most likely a Rogue/Fighter/Weapon Master/Frenzied Berserker, that deals about '47 + (Weapon dice)' of damage per hit. Would you take the 9,25% chance that you are suddenly hit back in melee? That your opponent might start gulping down some Potions of Heal while you are stuck Shapechanged and unable to cast any Heals or Greater Restorations on yourself? (Especially when your base AC as a Nightwalker is 31 without any defensive buffs on top, most of which are taken out with a Wand of Lesser Spell Breach.)

So as I've said before, combination of Shapechange and Divine Power is interesting. But it just does not feel like an automatic win button to me. It gets dispelled and robes aren't much in the way of defense. Even if you get all three Automatic Still Spell feats, it will cost you three of your five Epic feats. Do you spent the remaining two on an Epic Spell, or Great Ability feats? As for the seven pre-epic feats, two will most likely go for Practised Spell Caster, first to the Spell-casting Prodigy. Four feats left and the Extend spell feat is practically a must. What are you going to get with the remaining three feats? More meta-magic feats? Quicken, Still, Maximise?

The way I see it, Mystic Theurges are okay, but far from being flaws. So even though I do not see any mechanical reasons to make Mystic Theurge application only PRC, I do not mind if that is your decision. I mean, we got PRC for Fighter/Mages, Fighter/Cleric, Rogue/Mage, so why not add an option for a Cleric/Mage?

[NegInfinity]

Sigil had mytic theurge. Apparently NWN2 engine is inacpable of advancing two spellcasting classes at once (either that or sigil programmers didn't figure it out), so taking theurge levels meant you would advance in one class only, till you hit level 10, where you got all the spells for the other class.

I'm not sure if the class is a good idea, because you'll end up with two fully loaded spellbooks.

why not add an option for a Cleric/Mage?

Why not add an option for Warlock/Mage as well? ;P
Imagine sorc/warlock/theurge. The world shall burn.

I honestly think that (on BGTSCC) something like that would need to be application-only.

[BlueAce417]

Typically I'm the guy who keeps his peas and corn on the opposite sides of the plate. Hunger aside, I think a cross-class prestige that mixes two caster entities would be a little too complex and overpowering.

RP wise, I would find it difficult to have any of my characters see a known wizard resurrect a fallen person without a scroll and NOT raise questions about necromancy. Don't get me wrong, its a neat idea, but I think a class like this will only bring conflicts of interest among DMs and players alike.

I mean, when I think wizard, I think knowledgeable and feeble figures basing their entirety on facts. And clerics as devout war priests basing their entirety on the being they worship.
In my mind, I could not fathom the type of character to build for such a class combination. I get you could be a little intuitive and a little devout. But most characters are build on one key aspect about them.

For example, my "Lucas" character is very driven to efficiency and raw power, thus the Arcane Scholar and Archmage classes make sense.

Warlock should be excluded if this becomes part of Baldur's... Already overpowered as they are. I can already see Druid/Wizards becoming Giant Golems and flinging fireballs every which way thanks to Natural Spell.

Now, if it were DM application only, I would be fine. We wouldn't see too many of these builds, and seeing them would be a rare sight to behold. Plus people would take time to build their character's personality before they actually create them.

[Dawrf]

Sigil had mystic theurge. Apparently NWN2 engine is incapable of advancing two spell-casting classes at once (either that or sigil programmers didn't figure it out), so taking theurge levels meant you would advance in one class only, till you hit level 10, where you got all the spells for the other class.

I think they just used this one: http://neverwintervault.net/project/nwn ... ition-pack

Also, in order to get that missing spell casting progression, you only had to level up in again in the base class. (Which is why I have suggested that the PRC only requires first level spell casting rather than second as in PnP.)

I'm not sure if the class is a good idea, because you'll end up with two fully loaded spellbooks.

Like a cowboy with two fully loaded revolvers, right?

It would be smarter to consider what those guns were loaded with. Was it lead, blanks, or just empty casings?

What is the actual caster level, what level of spells they have access to, because that does determine the actual usefulness of the two spell books. For example the clerical spell-book is full of short duration buff spells that gradually improve with higher caster level. The arcane spell-books are filled with gradually improving offensive spells, and a handful of buffs with stock bonuses. Which one are you going to focus on, or are you going for an even split that means you will be easily and often dispelled even as a level 30 character?

So perhaps you could present a scenario where this access to 'two fully loaded spellbooks' would be a reason for concern.

why not add an option for a Cleric/Mage?

Why not add an option for Warlock/Mage as well? ;P
Imagine sorc/warlock/theurge. The world shall burn.

I honestly think that (on BGTSCC) something like that would need to be application-only.

A great straw man you have there.

The concept of a Cleric/Mage has existed considerably longer than that of a Warlock/Mage. But allow me to imagine that Sorcerer/Warlock/Theurge of yours...

To get the Eldritch Master feat on BGTSCC, you are required to have Eldritch Blast of 9d6. Naturally acquired with 20 levels of Warlock. Sixteen levels of Warlock should be enough with the Practised Invoker feat. So what kind builds are we actually looking at here?

Warlock 10/Sorcerer 10/Theurge 10? As it was argued before, the sorcerer buffs will be easily dispelled, and your Eldritch Blasts are three hit dices inferior compared to a regular Warlock.

Warlock 16/Sorcerer 4/Theurge 10? You are limited to seventh level Sorcerer spells. Although you have access to mirror images and what not, which of our current Warlocks would not already be thanks to their UMD? Not to mention that offensive spells trail after your invocations. Still, an option for the impoverished, perhaps?

Warlock 4/Sorcerer 16/Theurge 10? I think it might be, just barely, eligible for the Eldritch Master feat. So, you get 9d6*1,5 Eldritch Blasts? That is better than the serve feats, but you are still going to miss out on Arcane Scholar, Archmage, Bloodmage, or any other PRC used by dedicated Sorcerers. I suppose that could be an acceptable loss to anyone who wants to play a 'Blaster Master' type of Sorcerer. (Which would also make sense from a role-playing perspective, sell your soul for the ability to invoke eldritch energies.)

Thus: The world might kindle, but shortly after it will fizzle.

[Dawrf]

I think a cross-class prestige that mixes two caster entities would be a little too complex and overpowering.

Okay.

RP wise, I would find it difficult to have any of my characters see a known wizard resurrect a fallen person without a scroll and NOT raise questions about necromancy. Don't get me wrong, its a neat idea, but I think a class like this will only bring conflicts of interest among DMs and players alike.

The thing is, if a known wizard were to resurrect a fallen person and if that person did not become some undead monstrosity - then we clearly are not dealing with necromancy.

What it would raise, however, is a question of which deity our known wizard worships in order to posses such divine power.

I mean, when I think wizard, I think knowledgeable and feeble figures basing their entirety on facts. And clerics as devout war priests basing their entirety on the being they worship.
In my mind, I could not fathom the type of character to build for such a class combination. I get you could be a little intuitive and a little devout. But most characters are build on one key aspect about them.

Enter the Faerunian deities often worshiped by magic users: Mystra, Shar, Bane, Savras, Azuth, Corellon Larethian, Myrkul. Most of which are deities of magic themselves. Where as Bane works for those wishing to control others, and Myrkul for the ones that dabble with death and undeath.

So with the deities of magic, someone might strive to better understand their deity by studying both divine and arcane aspects of magic. Where as a Banite might long for greater power over others by tapping into as my magical sources as possible. As for our Myrkulite, he might be an arcanist that aspires to become a Lich, hence he might try to find the secrets through Myrkul's clergy and worship.

For example, my "Lucas" character is very driven to efficiency and raw power, thus the Arcane Scholar and Archmage classes make sense.

For example, my "Lucas" character is very driven in his worship of Mystra, and to better understand the nature of his deity, being a Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge makes sense.

Warlock should be excluded if this becomes part of Baldur's... Already overpowered as they are. I can already see Druid/Wizards becoming Giant Golems and flinging fireballs every which way thanks to Natural Spell.

The Natural Spell feat: "This ability allows the Druid to cast spells while in wild shape or elemental wild shape forms."

In other words, if the above Druid/Wizard flings fireballs an Iron Golem, then he is exploiting the quick-cast bug.

Now, if it were DM application only, I would be fine. We wouldn't see too many of these builds, and seeing them would be a rare sight to behold. Plus people would take time to build their character's personality before they actually create them.

There is a pattern that repeats whenever a new class is released. There is an initial rush, after which the interess fades as people slide back into their old characters or to the next fad.

As for 'momentarily' seeing too many of these same builds, well, it will never replaced our stock EDM Favored Souls, Strength Bards, Frenzied Weapon Masters, and Hipsing Arcanists. So a month or two, and its back to the same old lot. (Except for the players who really wanted to have their AD&D Cleric/Mages.)

[NegInfinity]

A great straw man you have there.

That was a joke and it was clearly labelled as such.

Do not forget that warlock has access to few DC-based manipulator invocations, which are DC based, have synergy with sorcerer and sound like a good thing to take as chaotic neutral, because there's no protection vs law/chaos on the server.

Either way, if you're looking for plausible warlock theurge build, you should head to "character building" forum and see what karond + theo could come up with.

Given that the class unlocks access to UMD, Taunt, Heal, gets bonus to Umd, can transform charisma to saves and have infinitely recastable stoneskin and haste, opens up light armor, there's very high chance of powerful combination here.

----

Speaking of sigil, theurge was doing just fine there. For comparison, on sigil +5 equipment is common, and a Druid Monk is considered to be underpowered.

[Dawrf]

Do not forget that warlock has access to few DC-based manipulator invocations, which are DC based, have synergy with sorcerer and sound like a good thing to take as chaotic neutral, because there's no protection vs law/chaos on the server.

I can point back to the three builds I mentioned earlier. How much you invest into Warlock determines what Invocations you can cast, your Warlock Caster level, and ultimately your Invocation DCs. (No epic bonus feats.)

As for the standard DC-based manipulator Warlock, a three or four level dip in Shadowdancer grants you ability to Hide in Plain Sight. You have higher spell DCs, and since this issue seems to be focused on PvP, an ability to avoid targeted spells. (Mobs can be made immune to mind-affecting spells and effects.)

Finally, Lesser Mind Blank spell lasts for 9 minutes per scroll, where as the higher level Mind Blank spell lasts for 15 minutes per scroll.

Not to mention that you can actually have high will saves in this game, and feats that allow you to reroll.

Either way, if you're looking for plausible warlock theurge build, you should head to "character building" forum and see what karond + theo could come up with.

A 'Warlock Theurge' build would most likely face the same restrictions as does the suggested 'Mystic Thuerge' this thread is actually about. Thus with the same limitations in mind, I would be honestly shocked to see a solid build that would not follow previously mentioned level divisions.

Given that the class unlocks access to UMD, Taunt, Heal, gets bonus to Umd, can transform charisma to saves and have infinitely recastable stoneskin and haste, opens up light armor, there's very high chance of powerful combination here.

I presume you are talking about the Warlock class added to a Sorcerer via some manner of 'Warlock Theurge.'

UMD - It is already used by normal Warlocks to utilize scrolls from the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list. A 'Warlock Theurge' with varying innate access to Wizard/Sorcerer spell list does not actually sound all that different, beyond saving some coin and time by not having to craft materials for UMD usage.

Taunt - It is an 'interesting' skill, but Warlocks do Ranged Touch Attacks and once their AB is 15+, those attacks tend to miss only when they roll a one.

Heal - It is a handy skill, one that I recommend to have. But healing kits come with a weight, and depending on the situation gulping down potions of Heal works better.

"Dark One's Own Luck" - This is something that is now affected by dispels. The lower your Warlock caster level is, the more likely regular mobs will dispel that particular least invocation. Yes, it can re-applied indefinitely, but you might have more pressing concerns in the middle of combat. (Leaving your saves more vulnerable to save or die spells from mobs, or other players.)

'Dark Foresight' - As above, it is also affected by dispels. Not to mention that you need sixteen levels of 'Warlock' to unlock it.

'Flee the scene' - As above, it is also affected by dispels. (And on this server, the duration was changed to (Warlock caster level)/2 rounds, and the spell is centered on the warlock with a small area of effect. Even with a caster level 30 Warlock, it only lasts for fifteen rounds per cast. With caster level of 18 that is nine rounds.

Access to Light Armor - Armored Caster allows your Warlock to blast Eldritch Blasts with impunity, however, it will not prevent Arcane Spell failure with your Sorcerer spells. (Mithril Chain Shirt has 10% and Mithril Breastplate has 15% arcane spell failure. Padded armor has 5%.)

Speaking of sigil, theurge was doing just fine there. For comparison, on sigil +5 equipment is common, and a Druid Monk is considered to be underpowered.

A Mystic Theurge is a spell caster, and hence will do just fine in anywhere that isn't a zone of anti-magic.

As for any comparisons made with another server, those shouldn't be tossed out so lightheartedly because different design choices have been implemented on different servers.

But let us entertain your another attempt at derailing a thread and discuss those 'Druid/monks' on Sigil. On that server Nature's Avatar spell can be cast on the druid herself. (That is +10 AB and Damage on top of being hasted and receiving bonus HP.) Then we could add 1d8 fire damage from Flame Weapon, 3d6 electrical from Storm Avatar.

They also use stock Dragon Wild Shapes (+Bronze) with following stats:
- STR 33
- DEX 10
- CON 23
- 2d8+1 damage
- 28 AC
- 150 temporary bonus hitpoints
- +1 attack bonus
- Immunity: Mind effects, Paralysis, Sneak attack
- Spell Resistance 22
- True Seeing
- Racial: type Dragon

So that damage is 2d8 + 1 + 13 (Strength) + 10 (Nature's Avatar) + 5 (Greater Magic Fang) + 1d8 (Fire) + 3d6 (Electrical)
= 50~ (On avarage hit)

As for AB: 22 (BAB) + 13 (Strength) + 10 (Nature's Avatar) + 5 (Greater Magic Fang)
= 50

Those stats would be 'over-powered-as-(do-me)' on BGTSCC, so the question is, why aren't them on Sigil?

The answer is quite simple really, Sigil takes place on the planes themselves. Damage reductions of both physical and elemental kind are more common than anything else. A dragon shaped Monk/Druid cannot have 'creature weapons' of specific material. Thus DRs of 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 severely punish their physical damage output. And then on top they have all those elemental damage reductions if not outright immunities, which is why both Flame Weapon and Storm Avatar add little to no damage. So instead of that 50~ damage per hit, it can easily fall as low as 10~ damage per hit, and hence a Monk/Druid is under powered on Sigil, and overpowered here on BGTSCC.

Additionally, as far as I know, Sigil does not have BGTSCC's dispel fix or even increased dispel ranges. Therefore, over there, it is perfectly viable to simply out level any dispels the generic mobs might throw at you. Two level '30' characters cast Dark One's Own luck, one has three level dip, the other is level 30, for both the invocation is exactly as hard to dispel.

So please, could you just stop making fallacies? Erm, your jokes?

[DM Ditto]

Be civil and respect others while debating, folks.

This is the first warning.

[Rhifox]

I would love to have Mystic Theurge. I play a sorcerer-blooded spirit shaman so mystic theurge would allow me to actually take sorcerer levels without gimping myself (I tried it before but ended up dropping the sorc levels). Not going to get into a balance discussion on it though, because DnD is not balanced. It gives more options for characters, which is why I like it.

Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple would be certainly be nice, too (Warlock/Arcane and Warlock/Divine respectively).

However, we probably need to focus on some love for melee before any more caster prcs.

[NegInfinity]

So please, could you just

Would you kindly behave in civil manner? Your tone does not make people appreciate your ideas. After the day of dealing with RL stuff this kind of attitude is the last thing I'd want to deal with.

I can point back to the three builds I mentioned earlier. How much...

You're barking at the wrong tree here.
If you want proper discussion about builds, you should go to "Build" subforum, toss an idea, and see what other guys will do with it.
Here it is:
http://bgtscc.net/viewforum.php?f=64

--------------

I voted no on your idea. There's enough casters and their PRCs.
You've also changed my opinion on the class. Rather than possibly having it as application-only, I'd rather not have it at all.

Have a nice day.

[BlueAce417]

Huh, didn't see it like that. Kinda forget about the gods quite often. I suppose it would make sense RP wise, so long as the Theurge understands how they plan to show their character.

[thebeasttt]

I don't think more custom caster PrC's are the problem. The problem is they are way better than the custom melee ones. Mystic Theurge can work but on no planet does it deserve a 10/10 progression. Should be 5/10 regardless of the dispel fix.

[Boddynock]

I don't think more custom caster PrC's are the problem. The problem is they are way better than the custom melee ones. Mystic Theurge can work but on no planet does it deserve a 10/10 progression. Should be 5/10 regardless of the dispel fix.

Er, 5/10 progression on this pure caster PRC would make it next to useless. Make it 6/10 and give them two bonus practiced spellcaster feats, so they get full CL but not full spells per day in either, that seems more fair.

Although, honestly, I don't think this is overpowered at all with the limitation on not allowing any other PRCs...