Paladin Build - RP focussed

[Kiran]

Think your typical holy knight, 2 handed sword of justice and righteousness shining out of his eyes and other body parts.

I dont want to stray from the paladin too much for any op gimmicks, but of course he should be decent in a fight, especially against undead/evil creatures.

Race either human or Aasimar (As human looking as possible, cos other races euw, smite!)

Rp wise depending on what happens to him, knowing me most likely bad stuff, he can either turn good or evil later on, so any path is viable if it fits in with being a good or bad paladin too.

Here is a build I made, I think though with tumble on our server paladins dont get it as a main skill, but I might be wrong? So that can be changed to 10 and smash into sense motive/rp skills instead

http://nwn2db.com/build/?239744

As always, still learning to build so be gentle... !

[chad878262]

Extend spell at 6 is simply too early, you don't have the spell slots to extend.

We don't have sanctify strikes on BG

IPA might not be the best idea. Your damage comes from (epic) divine might and your AB is going to be a little low, except when fully buffed. While using a two handed weapon is a good benefit when also using power attack/IPA, I'm not sure you will like the number of hits when it's active. though getting stacking buffs for +8 STR can help.

Since you don't use a shield, I highly recommend getting divine shield. Paladins have a handy spell that gives your shield up to +5 bonus too, so a couple of feats to replace sanctify strikes and IPA could be divine shield and monkey grip. That way, when you need to boost AC you can one hand your great sword of divine awesomeness and make any normal heavy shield in to a +5 EB shield (or if you happen to get one with interesting properties such as SR28+ even better!)

Diplomacy doesn't really need to be maxed for you to be diplomatic. Consider maxing heal and maybe putting a few points elsewhere as Diplomacy of 20 should be fine for when you want to use it in DM events. Up to you, but max heal is really nice if you need it during a battle.

Finally, with 11 wisdom you are dependent on a +3 WIS item for your spells, which is less than ideal. I personally would consider either reducing CON to 11 and increasing WIS to 14 or lowering INT to 10 and CON to 13 (I'd rather use a +3 CON item than have my spells lost whenever I unequip my wis item). Paladin spells are really nice on this server, but they get precious few slots. Having a 14 and then getting a +2 WIS/CHA item is nice for extra TU attempts (though that is obsolete if you cast a spell to increase CHA) and an extra low level slot from moving to 16 WIS.

Good luck and have fun.

[mrm3ntalist]

Finally, with 11 wisdom you are dependent on a +3 WIS item for your spells, which is less than ideal. I personally would consider either reducing CON to 11 and increasing WIS to 14 or lowering INT to 10 and CON to 13 (I'd rather use a +3 CON item than have my spells lost whenever I unequip my wis item). Paladin spells are really nice on this server, but they get precious few slots. Having a 14 and then getting a +2 WIS/CHA item is nice for extra TU attempts (though that is obsolete if you cast a spell to increase CHA) and an extra low level slot from moving to 16 WIS. .

Paladins dont lose spells when 11WISDM +3item. It will be fine to leave wisdom at 11.

Only bards and sorcerers lose spells form +X Charisma items

[calvinus]

Assuming you want to stick with your EDMish build, below are my personal views. This is not the only right answer! There was already great advice above from excellent paladin character players. Just do keep in mind this is a difficult class to RP right and that mistakes may be inevitable in the RP, but that these mistakes with a paladin can have serious IC consequences that would not be the case for other LG characters. Regardless, playing a paladin can be a ton of fun and generate some awesome RP whether among CG-NG-LG characters or among LN-N-CN or CE-NE-LE characters as well as among other paladins. I hope you very much enjoy RPing the class if you decide to roll your toon!

Mechanically, I'd recommend dropping Constitution to 10, making Dex 10, and making Intelligence (for more skills such as the various lore areas a paladin might have knowledge in including history, local, religion, and nobility/royalty lore as well as sense motive in addition to what you already have picked, although I'd drop spell craft entirely for UMD and these others skills and with your Charisma at 24, you really only need 5 UMD as well) or Wisdom (for more paladin spell spots) 14 (and the lower of the two 12). I would also recommend taking Extend Spell later, but not in epic levels, dropping Sanctify Strikes for Divine Shield, and dropping IPA for Heavy Armor Optimization.

RP wise, I'd recommend getting very familiar with how D&D and Forgotten Realms alignment works and how the paladin code is enforced (and not enforced) on this server as well as with the religious dogma of your character's to be patron god. If you do have any questions on any of this, I highly encourage you to ask the DM team any paladin lore related questions that you may have. The DM team has been extremely helpful for me as a paladin player personally in the past to get clarity on difficult paladin lore issues that naturally come up when playing a paladin!

Threads on RPing a paladin and alignment:

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47948

http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=7349

I hope that this helps!

[chad878262]

and dropping IPA for Heavy Armor Proficiency.

I'm assuming calvinus meant tower shield proficiency since paladin get heavy armor free. However, remember if you want to use a shield with your great sword you must have monkey grip. Also, tower shield and monkey grip each give -2 AB so using a heavy shield can add 7 AC for 2 AB. Tower shield can give 9 AC for -4 AB. In addition you need two feats (monkey grip and tower shield) vs just monkey grip. Either way is viable, depends on your preference.

Reason most paladins use a shield:
- damage comes from edm/smite/holy sword/bless weapon/lawful sword. (improved) power attack takes away AB thus landing fewer hits. If not using IPA the benefit of great sword over long sword is negligible.

-paladin can make any shield +5. That's a lot of defense to give up when using ipa is sub optimal due to fewer hits to land all the other damage types.


This is not to say your build doesn't/can't work. Only that you should understand the reason your rp choices are sub optimal for a paladin so that you aren't frustrated later, since you can take steps to mitigate the issues with your choices (ie by taking monkey grip and, potentially tower shield proficiency)

[Kiran]

Been testing out the build this morning without shield, and yeah, it is very much on the weak end, sure when I hit with ipa and smite already at low level doing 40-50 dmg... but still, think the sword/shield route is the good option, will give it a try later after work.

Thanks for all the tips and ideas, really helps.

[flipside43]

I came to the same conclusion with my smiter, though I found the balance was between giving damage and taking it. With a good party and support buffs, it's easier to focus on DPS.

[calvinus]

and dropping IPA for Heavy Armor Proficiency.

I'm assuming calvinus meant tower shield proficiency since paladin get heavy armor free. However, remember if you want to use a shield with your great sword you must have monkey grip. Also, tower shield and monkey grip each give -2 AB so using a heavy shield can add 7 AC for 2 AB. Tower shield can give 9 AC for -4 AB. In addition you need two feats (monkey grip and tower shield) vs just monkey grip. Either way is viable, depends on your preference.

Reason most paladins use a shield:
- damage comes from edm/smite/holy sword/bless weapon/lawful sword. (improved) power attack takes away AB thus landing fewer hits. If not using IPA the benefit of great sword over long sword is negligible.

-paladin can make any shield +5. That's a lot of defense to give up when using ipa is sub optimal due to fewer hits to land all the other damage types.


This is not to say your build doesn't/can't work. Only that you should understand the reason your rp choices are sub optimal for a paladin so that you aren't frustrated later, since you can take steps to mitigate the issues with your choices (ie by taking monkey grip and, potentially tower shield proficiency)

I apologize, I meant to say Heavy Armor Optimization (I think Optimization auto-corrected to Proficiency on my phone when I posted that =[) and not tower shield as this is a two-handed build I thought. I wrote proficiency by accident! Yeah, that was probably very confusing. I edited this for clarity! Thanks for catching that.

[calvinus]

I came to the same conclusion with my smiter, though I found the balance was between giving damage and taking it. With a good party and support buffs, it's easier to focus on DPS.

There is something to this as well. You might really enjoy this style of play as opposed to something more "balanced" defensively. I also can say that I have personally seen flip's paladin totally rock against evil PCs in pvp lol. Not that this should be an inherent aim of your toon mechanically, I'd argue it should not as this is not a pvp-focused server and is much more RP and story focused in nature -- and I have played a paladin EDM build for years that is total garbage at pvp and had a great time. It can be though that smiter paladin builds like flip's can be really powerful in pvp situations mechanically against evil foes in addition to what flip implied with pve in a balanced party as an FYI.

[Kiran]

There is something to this as well. You might really enjoy this style of play as opposed to something more "balanced" defensively. I also can say that I have personally seen flip's paladin totally rock against evil PCs in pvp lol. Not that this should be an inherent aim of your toon mechanically, I'd argue it should not as this is not a pvp-focused server and is much more RP and story focused in nature -- and I have played a paladin EDM build for years that is total garbage at pvp and had a great time. It can be though that smiter paladin builds like flip's can be really powerful in pvp situations mechanically against evil foes in addition to what flip implied with pve in a balanced party as an FYI.

I completely agree, the high saves and insane sudden smite damage is crazy, but from what I see it is a pure boss killer, and I am not very pvp focused at all.

Will continue testing my way forward!

[finneas]

It is also worth mentioning that there are a number of pvp oriented folks that build their evil characters "neutral" to mechanically avoid this very thing. YMMV

[Kinkurono]

If they are not evil you can just smite infidel them if you want

[flipside43]

Yes smite infidel is quite useful against non evil foes. Evenso, it still has descent PvE capability (at least mine did, Pally20/DC10) and good PvP capability outside of smites.

From the RP perspective, I would recommend developing a personal code for your paladin based on ancestry and dogma. I found it really useful for mine. It wasn't anything elaborate but it had six or seven points that helped steer his RP.

Plenty of good oriented guilds that you could get involved with as well, either joining or working in cooperation with.

[xLegionx]

It is also worth mentioning that there are a number of pvp oriented folks that build their evil characters "neutral" to mechanically avoid this very thing. YMMV

Can these people be reported? It's basically cheating isn't it?

[chad878262]

It is also worth mentioning that there are a number of pvp oriented folks that build their evil characters "neutral" to mechanically avoid this very thing. YMMV

Can these people be reported? It's basically cheating isn't it?

Can you prove it? It's a bit subjective to 'prove' seeing as one could argue that a Chaotic Neutral PC has as much (maybe more) likelihood of doing evil as s/he does doing good. I suppose you could report someone to the DM staff and if you provide screenshots showing the conversation, actions, etc. the individual very well could be awarded evil points at least, but it would be very hard to prove this is breaking the rules since the player in question could argue that the PC isn't evil, but has perhaps more propensity to commit evil acts, while also still doing good as well (hence the Neutral alignment).

I would say it depends on the individual, but as a suggestion I recommend not getting to caught up in how someone else defines their RP as you would just be setting yourself up for frustration. You will have a much happier time in an environment such as this if you simply focus on the activities that occur around your PC and how s/he would interpret and react to the various situations. Be a part of the story, but don't try to own the story as that is when you'll end up frustrated/disappointed/rage-quit.... So, yeah...fear, aggression, ownership....all paths to the darkside.