Non-evil necromancer...

[V'rass]

After having a nice philosophical debate about necromancy and whether it is evil I have decided to make a non-evil necromancer to prove to all that they can exist and to shut up all the nay-sayers who insist that necromancy is evil period which annoys me IC and OOC. Will basically be the necromancer from Diablo 2... true neutral and just as dangerous to evil as any good-aligned character. Not sure whether he will focus on summoning or debuffing yet. Regardless, should be fun to play.

[Deathgrowl]

Well, necromancy as a whole isn't evil. Some spells are inherently evil. You cannot make a non-evil undead user, for instance (well, you can, mechanically, but I hope the DMs then give you alignment shifts fast, because morals are objective in Forgotten Realms).

[Planehopper]

I may be missing your question, I just see a bit of goading for a nice argument? I doubt that many would argue that ALL necromancy spells are evil (as in evil/undead descriptor), but there are a good many of them that are not 'good'.

Being neutral on your character sheet doesn't change the IC reactions to those types of spells. Goodly characters will probably try to kill your undead on sight, and will likely shun/hunt/exile you for creating/manipulating them. Evil ones too, if they feel like it.

Please keep in mind that any reaction you may receive IC needs to be separated from your "OOC annoyance".

[V'rass]

I know that conflict will be unavoidable... Most people wont care that he is neutral and neutral characters often tend to offend those of good alignment anyway since they don't care about morality or ethics and will side with the villains if they determine that is the best way to uphold the balance/greater-good. And who is to say he wont go evil later... how people react to and treat him could easily modify his view of and treatment of them. As for evil being objective, I have encountered several other characters/players who beg to differ, hence the philosophical debate in the first place. Regardless feel free to give him evil points, never said he would stay neutral forever...

[TheLier]

Well as others have said, in DnD it is -set in stone- that creating undead is evil 99% of the time*. The existance of undead is inherently evil. That is the OOC standpoint.

Your toon is free to believe what they want, but on the sheet, there should be an LE at best if they consider creating undead as something which is not evil.


*The exceptions are there, but very rare, for example Baelnorn liches.

[Grinning]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my memory tells me that the act of creating undead summons negative energy into the Prime Material plane from the Negative Energy plane, thereby corrupting/degrading it at a fundamental level. Sort of like unnaturally shifting the balance towards the destructive nature of the universe. So while the use of negative energy as a whole isn't evil per se, after all the Prime Material has a measure of it in balance naturally, adding more through your own whims could be construed as pretty bad by good gods and their followers, astral/celestial agents, and perhaps anyone with enough lore: the planes to understand what the ramifications are.

[V'rass]

He will prob be chaotic neutral... he is not evil per say but he does not give a crap about morality, ethics, or societal taboos and could care less what the gods have to say on the matter. Freedom, self expression, and free-will are the only things that matter to him, anyone who stands in the way of those at best will be held in contempt and at worst will be smacked down the minute they get in his face. He wont start a fight but if someone does be it mortal or deity then heads will roll. And yes... he will be crazy enough to challenge the gods directly if they get in his way lol. Should be fun to rp him.

[Deathgrowl]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my memory tells me that the act of creating undead summons negative energy into the Prime Material plane from the Negative Energy plane, thereby corrupting/degrading it at a fundamental level. Sort of like unnaturally shifting the balance towards the destructive nature of the universe. So while the use of negative energy as a whole isn't evil per se, after all the Prime Material has a measure of it in balance naturally, adding more through your own whims could be construed as pretty bad by good gods and their followers, astral/celestial agents, and perhaps anyone with enough lore: the planes to understand what the ramifications are.

You seem to be overthinking this a bit. It's quite simple:

Is it a spell that has Evil descriptor? Then it is evil. Is it a spell like ability doing pretty much the same as a spell that has an Evil descriptor? Then it is evil.

You don't need to understand why it is evil. Just accept the rules of the game.

[chad878262]

He will prob be chaotic neutral... he is not evil per say but he does not give a crap about morality, ethics, or societal taboos and could care less what the gods have to say on the matter. Freedom, self expression, and free-will are the only things that matter to him, anyone who stands in the way of those at best will be held in contempt and at worst will be smacked down the minute they get in his face. He wont start a fight but if someone does be it mortal or deity then heads will roll. And yes... he will be crazy enough to challenge the gods directly if they get in his way lol. Should be fun to rp him.

The only issue here is, as has been said if you are going to be casting evil spells such as summoning undead you should by definition have your alignment shift to evil each time, much like a blood mage shifts toward chaotic evil by using blood magic. In FR the spells themselves are inherently evil and by using them your soul would be corrupted so even if you consider yourself CN (or any other alignment) every time you cast an evil spell you should shift toward evil IMO.

[V'rass]

True hence why i would use such spells sparingly. I have found undead to be rather weak compared to most other summons in general anyway, not to mention they dont last long at all compared to say elementals. Ironically my necromancers almost never use undead as they are inferior to what other summoning spells can get you.

Also he would be doing good deeds as well as evil so it should be possible to keep him neutral if i am careful about what spells i use or acts i commit. It will essentially be a balancing act. He will be a difficult character to play but if i can pull it off the rp generated should be exceptional. Whether he manages to stay neutral or falls to evil waits to be seen.

[Hawke]

I am all for breaking the mold.

However, there are constants that cannot be changed.

Sun always rises.
Taxes are always due.
Spells with EVIL descriptors that are identified as such by players (or casting in front of a NPC caster) = potential death.
Raising the undead = potential death.

There is no way around it. Necromancy spells being used for "good"... Right on! Use a couple of those Evil Descriptor spells around mundanes and bluffing your way out of it if they catch on, cool beans.

Summon that Vampire warrior or raise that zombie... You are screwed, for life. (character life anyways).

If I am mistaken, let me know. But if you want to play a Non Evil Necromancer, focus on debuffs, instagibs and have the inherent knowledge on what it takes to raise undead and create ... abominations. Not actually do it.

[Face]

Is that not the same with blood magic?

[Hawke]

Is that not the same with blood magic?

I think so... until you are covered in your own blood and bursting out of other people's bodies like Alien.

[Face]

Ow i though you could be a neutral blood mage on this server.

[TheLier]

Ow i though you could be a neutral blood mage on this server.

Hmm, maybe if you only use blood component, you can?