Post PvP Debates: A potential solution

[metaquad4]

So! One thing that toxifies PvP (heck, even some CvC that doesn't involve PvP depending on the person, but, lets not needlessly complicate this) on this server imo is the abundance of people who complain. I'm not going to point any fingers, you people know who you are. This suggestion isn't about drawing light on them. Its about a solution to this stupid mentality that has been festering for some time.

A new rule! One I feel is extremely necessary, given how bad a taste these people give this server/game when they start their sobbing and moaning about PvP (usually after losing, interestingly enough). Obviously, the wording can be refined if this rule is taken up as needed. The general idea is this:

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After PvP has been mechanically resolved (the loser has been defeated), the loser must not speak OOCly where the victor can hear them (general chat or PMs to the victor) until the victor says their fate. Once that happens, the loser and the victor must mutually consent to OOC communication to speak to one another OOCly during a 24 hour timer, or rather, opt in to speaking to one another for the 24 hour "avoidance" stage of post-PvP.

If mutual consent is not established, any OOC communication between the two in game will be considered harassment, on the part of the person who instigated the none-consentual communication.

If either party has an issue with the PvP, they should PM a DM on the forums. If the DM believe it to be trivial, the DM is fully within their rights to tell the two player parties to sort it out among themselves. This is up to the DM's discretion.

If a player sends too many trivial complaints, the DM can always pull them aside (if they feel it necessary) to explain to them the concept of "maturity".

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Recap:

--PvP takes place.
--PvP is concluded.
--Loser cannot speak to the winner until their fate is stated.
--Loser and winner must make mutual OOC consent to speak to one another. Regardless of their choice, after 24 hours, they can speak OOCly again. (Its advisable to screenshot this consent)
--If no consent is reached, and either party speaks to one another, the party who was spoken to is free to claim harassment.
--If consent is reached, life continues as normal.
--After 24 hours, free OOC interaction is opened up again.

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This "opt in" system will still leave room for communication, if the two parties wish to speak with each other. And, at any time during the communication, if a party feels like the conversation is vitriolic, they can always tell the person to cease speaking to them or it will be considered harassment. This rule merely would serve to halt any conversation that would lead to a player feeling that way. Thusly, players can avoid immature players whilst still having the option to speak to one another if they feel the other person is a decent enough person to hold a conversation with.

Because, really. These post PvP whiners -are- toxic to the server. They are the type of person who makes you want to avoid the game entirely, like any other poor sports do.

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Also, a PSA to you post PvP whiners:

If you have a serious complaint, take it up with the DMs, don't even speak your fellow players. If you think its trivial, roll with the punches and don't bother the DMs. If the DMs think its trivial and don't act on your complaint, you are complaining for nothing. Don't just keep complaining. If you have to figure out when your complaints are worthless none-issues, at least learn from when DMs ignore your complains so that you don't have to endlessly bother everyone involved.

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For the DMs:

I don't know if this would help, but personally, I think it would. Punish REPEATED false complainants, who are whining about trivial things. It doesn't need to be harsh. Just a love-tap like 1000 xp. Just to remind them they are wrong. It works on pets, it works on children, and it certainly works on adults. A little reality check for them. It might even lighten your load. Ignorance of the rules should never be acceptable, after all!

Or, if you are interested in something more creative than just XP as a punishment:

Make a room, with a single NPC. If you are put in this room, you are given a token and cannot leave (even by Mystra, she'd send you back just like the fugue). The NPC asks the person 50 questions, based on the server rules. The person has to answer 45/50 to be able to leave the room. That might also work for the people who do other light offenses! Just a thought, for punishments. (That might not be worth the effort, though.)

[Face]

Sounds realy good... Shame it wil never ever happen on BG.

Cry hard oocly and get what you want thats the way as far as i seen.

[Endelyon]

No offense, but the way I see it, we have enough rules as it is, and even when the DMs make a new one, a good chunk of the community complains about it--as seen in yesterday's thread.

So I have to ask, is an official DM and administrative ruling seriously needed for every minor interaction and question you might have? Do we really need these laws and punishments in place, or could players just act like adults, instead?

Perhaps we should take it a step further and make a ruling against ALL OOC communication and disable tells and cause OOC marked chat remove RP xp you've earned. Perhaps we should have a ruling too that says that DMs can deduct XP if you wear white boots after Highcoin.

I'm sorry to reply to a legitimate request with sarcasm, but this sounds to me like you're asking for a DM ruling so that you can PVP people without having to deal with the fact that some of them might become upset over the outcome of the RP, and my thought is this:

Perhaps if the player you're interacting with is upset with the RP you're having with them, you should just walk away from the RP altogether? For both of your sakes?

Just my two cents.

[Face]

No offense, but the way I see it, we have enough rules as it is, and even when the DMs make a new one, a good chunk of the community complains about it--as seen in yesterday's thread.

So I have to ask, is an official DM and administrative ruling seriously needed for every minor interaction and question you might have? Do we really need these laws and punishments in place, or could players just act like adults, instead?

Perhaps we should take it a step further and make a ruling against ALL OOC communication and disable tells and cause OOC marked chat remove RP xp you've earned. Perhaps we should have a ruling too that says that DMs can deduct XP if you wear white boots after Highcoin.

I'm sorry to reply to a legitimate request with sarcasm, but this sounds to me like you're asking for a DM ruling so that you can PVP people without having to deal with the fact that some of them might become upset over the outcome of the RP, and my thought is this:

Perhaps if the player you're interacting with is upset with the RP you're having with them, you should just walk away from the RP altogether? For both of your sakes?

Just my two cents.

Sounds like world of warcraft mode to me.

[JCVD1]

I played on servers that, of course, died fairly fast. But the PvP rules and assassinations rules were so simple.

PvP: All goes, need only to set hostile, need a RP reason to do it.

Assassinations: Permadeath, overlooked by a DM. Need valid reason.

There was no complaints about PvP, and there was real death penalty.

What's happened here is we nurtured an immature behaviour about loosing/winning. <--- if that,s not sorted out, nothing will fix the whinning by people that lost their PvP battle, even if its harmless and consequance free.

[Thorsson]

So there's the people that whine after they lose PvP. Then there's the people that whine about the people whining. Maybe we can now have people who whine about the people whining about the people whining. Etc.

Let's face it:

1. You can't make all the people happy all the the time.

2. The grass is always greener on some other PW, but somehow there's always more people here.

[JCVD1]

So there's the people that whine after they lose PvP. Then there's the people that whine about the people whining. Maybe we can now have people who whine about the people whining about the people whining. Etc.

Let's face it:

1. You can't make all the people happy all the the time.

2. The grass is always greener on some other PW, but somehow there's always more people here.

3-And Thorsson brings nothing constructive on any of his posts. Let's never forget that!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

2. The grass is always greener on some other PW, but somehow there's always more people here.

Most things are up for interpretation here, which enables the aforementioned.

Players have a responsibility when engaging in PvP to remind themselves that the consequences are something they're consenting to. The opt-out is not to participate from the onset.

[Darkcloud777]

Have every player start off as hostile to each other and force players to manually make friends neutral. How about that idea?

[Akroma666]

I've been in PvP situations where I've been killed for a horrid rp reason that will be omitted. I think having the ability to petition the the staff for review is not complaining at all. Look at it as a coaching exercises so more people don't have to feel "bitter" about poor engagements. As a rule of thumb, before PvPing, I always PM the person and ask "do you consent to PvP? I found it solves a lot of problems to be able to step out of the mind of your character and just ask the player, "bra, we cool?"

P.s. don't ever PvP someone in a language they can't understand..

[Thorsson]

3-And Thorsson brings nothing constructive on any of his posts. Let's never forget that!

4. And JCVD1 can't spell either whining/winning or losing, as well as not understanding constructive when he sees it.

Pfah!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

3-And Thorsson brings nothing constructive on any of his posts. Let's never forget that!

4. And JCVD1 can't spell either whining/winning or losing, as well as not understanding constructive when he sees it.

Pfah!

Not the place for this, gents.

[Young Werther]

Imo being deconstructive can help too if the argument gets too wrapped up in minutia.

As for the topic I have no idea. I think people need to roll with the punches and not take things so seriously maybe.

[Thorsson]

Not the place for this, gents.

No. I never start it, but neither will I duck out if someone wants to play dirty.

[metaquad4]

No offense, but the way I see it, we have enough rules as it is, and even when the DMs make a new one, a good chunk of the community complains about it--as seen in yesterday's thread.

So I have to ask, is an official DM and administrative ruling seriously needed for every minor interaction and question you might have? Do we really need these laws and punishments in place, or could players just act like adults, instead?

Perhaps we should take it a step further and make a ruling against ALL OOC communication and disable tells and cause OOC marked chat remove RP xp you've earned. Perhaps we should have a ruling too that says that DMs can deduct XP if you wear white boots after Highcoin.

I'm sorry to reply to a legitimate request with sarcasm, but this sounds to me like you're asking for a DM ruling so that you can PVP people without having to deal with the fact that some of them might become upset over the outcome of the RP, and my thought is this:

Perhaps if the player you're interacting with is upset with the RP you're having with them, you should just walk away from the RP altogether? For both of your sakes?

Just my two cents.

JCVD1 mentioned this, but, this is the only server where this issue is so wide-spread. I don't intend to walk away from RP. But, I am in the process of playing on this server less and less, since there are more mature playerbases on nwn2. Hence, I'd really like the issue to be solved. Somehow. This server has some lovely people, but its filled a whole lot of rotten eggs.

Maybe this server has "nutured an immature behavior about losing/winning". I could believe that. Maybe people's egos are too inflated? Maybe everyone wants to be the protagonist or thinks they are the protagonist, and then get so defensive when they fail? (More events where the PCs fail or never had a chance of winning in the first place? idk!) Maybe we need more adverts for supporting characters. "The stress-free life"

"So I have to ask, is an official DM and administrative ruling seriously needed for every minor interaction and question you might have?"

Should they be? No. Definitely not. However, for the wide-spread issue that do serve the toxify the server's environment? Yes. If there is a way to make a rule against immaturity, that would solve most, if not all, of the issues. Sadly, I can't find a way to phrase such a rule as of yet. If anyone does have a way, I'd pay (with artistically drawn coloured circles) to see it.

"could players just act like adults, instead? "

Its a 13+ server, not an 18+ server. Acting like adults is an 18+ level of maturity, not a 13+ one. Acting like teenagers is what one should expect, rather. If the DMs want to make it clear an adult mentality and level of maturity is to be required, that requires a rule change. Else-wise, expect what the standard is.

"I think people need to roll with the punches and not take things so seriously maybe."

This should be put up on...everything! I'm going to sig this.

No. I never start it, but neither will I duck out if someone wants to play dirty.

I didn't start the problem, but hell! Let me just become part of the problem real quick. Brilliant insight, Thorsson (/s). Speaking of that maturity issue. . .