Hide in the Shadows (NOT HIPS)

[Theodore01]

Hide in the Shadows
Prerequisite: Rogue 10
Use: Selected
You may blend seemlesly into the shadows. By placing yourself near an obstacle you can blend into the shadows, entering stealth. Unlike your normal ability to enter stealth you can also use this ability in combat. Entering into the shadows renders you immobile for four seconds while you attempt to blend. If any hostile creatures are within melee attack range the attempt will fail.

(taken from the wiki)

So how useful is the feat today?
Is anyone enjoying a character with it ?
Is it possible to level a rogue from a scratch with it (without hips) - or is it just painful to try ?

[chad878262]

Rasael would have to comment to be certain since this ability was 'in the backlog' before I joined QC and is one of the many items in the big update that has little documentation around the discussion, that I can find. So take the following as my thoughts based on the ASSUMPTION that it works as advertised...

The idea would appear to be that one could build a Stealth Rogue WITHOUT Assassin or ShadowDancer (ie no HiPS) and still be viable. However, the 'usefulness' of such a build is in the eyes of the beholder. If you don't mind dash tactics where you run around a corner to re-stealth before reengaging an enemy than it is certainly viable, but could come with a bit of a learning curve since you have to be far enough from a melee enemy to give yourself 4 seconds for the stealth to apply before they reach you. My guess is builds that include Monk, Barbarian, Bodyguard or other classes that grant increased movement rate would be a huge help here. Consider, for the cost of one feat, instead of having a Monk11/R10/A9 you could have a Monk20/R10 and use the Hide in Shadows Feat instead of HiPS. Allowing you to be more 'monkish' while still taking advantage of rogue synergies. You would do less damage then the Assassin build due to 5d6 fewer SA dice, but you could reliably be a fist monk instead of kama's, would have adamantine fists and some other bonuses to make up for the loss of damage and assassin death attack. Not arguing it is a better build, but it is certainly viable, especially since monk speed makes Hide in Shadows feat work better (easier to get distance on your enemies prior to activating the feat). Also note the M20/R10 build would miss out on crippling strike (and thus epic precision). In order to get both you would need to go M17/R13 or M16/R14 so would still have adamantine fists, but would miss out on some other Monk goodies.

ShadowDancer can get HiPS two levels sooner since HiS isn't available until R10, but R10 can get it faster than an Assassin build so leveling I would say it is in line with any other sneak build...It is really just a way to open up option for Rogue types that don't want SD or Assassin to have a little survivability, but it is certainly not as great as HiPS.

Hope this helps.

[Theodore01]

So how useful is the feat today?
Is anyone enjoying a character with it ?
Is it possible to level a rogue from a scratch with it (without hips) - or is it just painful to try ?

bump!

any further insights ????
thxs

[Thorsson]

If you play an Assassin then it's level 13 at the earliest before you can get HiPS. I've played a number of such characters and certainly a well built Assassin can level pre-HiPS without too many problems, using various tactics, such as opening salvo from hiding, hit and run tactics, use of ranged attacks followed by hiding round a corner. Where you can struggle is if you get mobbed. No reason why you can't do this all the way, but you will have to accept that you are weak in comparison. NB Having at least one Assassin level for DA on the opening flurry is a big advantage.

You can also use Feint. The only downside to Feint is that it doesn't offer defence like HiPS, so you really need to look after your AC.

[Theodore01]

Thxs Thorsson, but the question is not about cheesy Hips - its about the newly interduced Rogue feat

[Steve]

Random comments:

- Monk 20 / Assassin 10 is already possible, and I would argue much better than Monk 20 / Rogue 10. Even with this new Hide in the Shadows.

- I do like the idea of a 'soft' HiPS for Rogues, and the description is interesting: " ...use this ability in combat. Entering into the shadows renders you immobile for four seconds while you attempt to blend." So essentially, using this feat, a toon sacrifices a Round, unlike HiPS, which is instant. And the same H/MS check applies.

- HOWEVER, there is this: "If any hostile creatures are within melee attack range the attempt will fail. " So that means in IN combat, you can't Hide in the Shadows. So it requires a Toon to be outside melee range, but not necessarily out-of-sight to the enemy. The real question then would be how to get far enough away to click the Feat, before the enemy reached melee range in those 4 seconds of immobility, to ruin the attempt.

[Lockonnow]

I like it and then we remove the Hips i allways find it odd that a person could disappear in the air with a shadow or a smoke bomb

[Thorsson]

Thxs Thorsson, but the question is not about cheesy Hips - its about the newly interduced Rogue feat

Ah, news to me. Where can one find a description?

[Theodore01]

Ah, news to me. Where can one find a description?

In the first post or the wiki

[mrm3ntalist]

http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Hide_in_the_Shadows

[Thorsson]

Thanks. Well it makes the life of a non-HiPS Rogue a bit easier, but not a great deal, due to the 4 second requirement. Now if the AI didn't cheat, it would be a lot more worthwhile.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

I'm not sure why HiPS was never granted as a bonus rogue feat to start with, making SD redundant maybe, but with the addition of it people would take 13 rogue instead of 10 rogue (crippling strike)?

[Darradarljod]

I'm not sure why HiPS was never granted as a bonus rogue feat to start with, making SD redundant maybe, but with the addition of it people would take 13 rogue instead of 10 rogue (crippling strike)?

I think it would have made sense for high level Rogues to have an urban version of HiPS (opposite to Ranger's HiPS, which only works in the wilderness).

[Sokolsky]

Ah, news to me. Where can one find a description?

In the first post or the wiki

http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Hide_in_the_Shadows

Perhaps this thread can be updated with the rogue's ability too?

[Lockonnow]

find it odd that a person could disappear in the air with out a shadow or a smoke bomb