Is BGTSCC in the paradigm of the Great Wheel Cosmology?

[Steve]

Hello,
Just to be sure, our Knowledge: Planes skilled Characters should have some reference to the Great Wheel Cosmology, and NOT the World Tree Cosmology (as quoted: "...was outlined in the Year of Wild Magic, 1372 DR").

I assume "outlined" should be read as defined, and in 1352 DR, it is either unknown in that latter form, or, is something that is changing (as in, we haven't reached the Era of Unheaval yet....).

I have not been able to locate in Lore sources, when exactly the World Tree was discovered, which helped get the "outline" together.

And yes, I realize that a PC should not be a walking Source Book. I would like to at least be putting my PC on the right track for gaining more information.

Cheers.

[Maecius]

There was a conversation about this on the DM forums some time again, though I don't recall if there was a consensus on the answer.

I think the short answer was that "nobody knows." Planar scholars might well ascribe to one theory or the other, in the same way that modern day physicists might argue about the specifics of the Big Bang, the expansion rate of the universe, the ultimate end of the universe, or the possible existence of multiple universes ("multiverse").

Basically there are theories, but no mortal scholar has mapped the planar cosmos.

[Tsidkenu]

According to server timeline it should be Great Wheel. The consensus doesn't move towards the World Tree model until after Godswar, and then to the World Axis model after the Spellplague. Something like that.

I will be assuming Aeili's significant number of ranks in Planar Lore will espouse the Great Wheel planar model even if I'm told otherwise.

[Herisheft]

If I remember properly, the very presence of Sigil suggested that it is a Great Wheel Cosmology.

[Steve]

As a follow up: is it accepted RP for a Character to be researching and promoting a Great Wheel, and possibly discovering hints to a World Tree...if that is supported through IG + Forum actions?

[V'rass]

There is a faction in Sigil dedicated to the exploration and codification of the planes and they have produced an impressive amount of knowledge therein but even they dont know everything. The fact that many of those who do the exploration of the harsher planes often dont come back also makes it difficult and knowledge of many planes was lost when the exploration teams failed to report what they had discovered as such.

[Maecius]

As a follow up: is it accepted RP for a Character to be researching and promoting a Great Wheel, and possibly discovering hints to a World Tree...if that is supported through IG + Forum actions?

I haven't verified what the lore says explicitly on it, but based on Tsidkenu's report it sounds like the Great Wheel might be the "mainstream" version scholars are currently peddling. (If perhaps only because the "World Tree" version wasn't actually invented as an OOC concept until D&D 3.5, which is technically set a little later than 2nd Edition [it's set in 1372, compared to 2nd edition's 1367]. Though both editions are actually set after our server's timeline -- even the very, very first campaign setting for Forgotten Realms is set in 1356.)

It'd be up to the DMs if they want to give any hints about the planar cosmology that do not sync in with the official lore.

It's almost worth putting "official lore" in quotes. There's been probably two dozen books on planar cosmology across the D&D franchise -- many more if we count all of the Planescape and Spelljammer lore -- and a lot of it cross-references itself. Even the 3.5 edition Forgotten Realms stuff says "uhh, this tree thing is for our setting, but go reference the Manual of the Planes and Dungeon Master's Guide for more details on how everything actually works. Those are right too!"

After the Spellplague, there's even a new model for the Forgotten Realms called the "world axis" model.

Look way, way back and you see even other variants of the cosmology (before the "Great Wheel" was fully crystallized as a concept and propagated as the official D&D version for all campaigns, except where campaigns individually differed).

In short, if it's this convoluted even out of character, you gotta imagine those 33 ranks in planar cosmology are only scratching the surface of the infinite worlds beyond Toril's crystal sphere!

[DM Dagon]

This is more or less a personal opinion, but it may be useful to understand why things happen. So, it does not represent the opinion of the team.

The ruling, is that there is not ruling, if you want to be blunt.

The current stance is that the DMs won't solidify any cosmology. In theory a DM could run one which falsifies one, then run another which does the opposite. But even in the light of that, both events will be there, and none of them will be retconned.

Of course, most people don't want things like this to happen, so they don't run events where cosmology comes into play.

Currently, Planeswalker bios were approver, and those who lived in Sigil were approved either. As far as I know, that is the only thing we did, regarding to cosmology, but we are still firmly not Planscape.

Or anything else, to be honest. The ruling is that there is no rulings, and all theories are IC. While I understand that this is fustrating, and I personally agree that such ruling might be appropiate, that is not the case currently.

Again, all opinions, this does not represent the team's opinion in any shape or form, just mine.