Non-monk fistfighter

[Zanniej]

Is it doable? I'm looking for a build for a battlerager as per the lore. However, we don't have grappling nor spikes. So I'm wondering if there's a way to make a viable fist fighter without monk levels.

Right now, the battle rager is just a very good charger.

Anyone got an idea for it?

[Steve]

These days, your best bet might well be a Barbarian 22 / Battlerager 5 / FotF 3. Take Whirlwind Frenzy on Barb, pump CON to 20 and STR the rest of the way. Take the obvious Barb feats like Ice Troll Lodge for AC, and get Epic Rage off of reaching STR 21.

Damage will be low, but you'll have fun. For better dmg maybe a Fighter 12 / FotF 3 / Battlerager 5 / Barbarian 10 (or Fighter 18 / Barb 4).

EDIT: Come to think of it, regarding the former, if FotF AC Bonus would calculate Normal Rage CON bonus, I'd consider taking normal Rage over Whirlwind Frenzy, seeing that it would extent the DMG + AC bonus (which would then be higher than what is granted by Whirlwind during raging). But its an unknown unless JEGs would be working, in order to test.

[Akroma666]

From personal experience and me raging all over the bear warrior suggestions.. No.

Flat No.

It is impossible to make a non monk fist build currently. The damage even with IPA and max STR is still dwarfed by a weapon and monster DR. Have fun hitting for 10-20dmg a hit.

[Theodore01]

EDIT: Come to think of it, regarding the former, if FotF AC Bonus would calculate Normal Rage CON bonus, I'd consider taking normal Rage over Whirlwind Frenzy, seeing that it would extent the DMG + AC bonus (which would then be higher than what is granted by Whirlwind during raging). But its an unknown unless JEGs would be working, in order to test.

No, it only base con that counts for AC on a FoF.

[Eclypticon]

A paladin SF fighter or ranger SF fighter should be viable with over 40AB and more unarmed damage than normal. Spells are not really important here, but can be somewhat useful. A FoTF dip is possible here too if you do not take those as fighter levels. I doubt this is the route you want to go for RP, but non monk fists can work well.

[Valefort]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?256610

AB : 30 (BAB) + 9 (STR) +4 (epic weapon focus) + 2 (unarmed mastery) + 4 (EB) - 6 (IPA) = 43 AB

AC : 10 (base) +3 (tumble) +1 (LoH) + 1 (armor skin) + 4 (INT mod) + 4 (DEX) +2 (CON) + 4 (enchant) +5 (delfection, elaborate parry) +4 (natural armor) + 4 (dodge) + 4 (shield spell) = 46 AC

Damage : 1d2 (fist base damage) + 1d4 (fist of the forest) + 2d6 (precise strike) + 6 (epic weapon spec) +2 (unarmed mastery) + 9 (STR mod) + 10 (enhanced power attack) = 1d2+1d4+2d6+ 27 ~ 38

Couldn't escape the need for shield spell in the end.

[mrm3ntalist]

Contrary to what has been said, both a ranger ( with FoF or not ) and a Barbarian/Rager/FoF are perfectly viable. I like the barbarian version steve suggested better but instead of PA/IPA i would go for CE/ICE and deadly defense. The damage would be

1d6FoF +4EB + 7(24STR) +1d3Base +1d4Deadly = ~19.5 average + any damage from the gloves + 5 damage when raging.

The AC will be monstrous. close to 50 with no armor, 52 with full plate. That is when not raging. When you do the AC is around 60.

Add to that the 14DR and close to 600hp and contrary to what ahs been said before, it is a very viable build.

[Akroma666]

I like the creativity guys, but dealing 20-30 damage without adamantine fist won't do much against the DR 5-10 mobs in epic levels. That damage is just not viable.

[Zanniej]

Come to think of it, don't the kama's have a sort of claw type look as well?

( even though I like the given ideas so far very much! Just looking for all ways of creating a sort of lore-wise battle rager ... Like The Pwent! )

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[AC81]

I like the creativity guys, but dealing 20-30 damage without adamantine fist won't do much against the DR 5-10 mobs in epic levels. That damage is just not viable.

Dwarven defenders do exactly this amount of damage and are seen as the epitome of non-UMD melee builds, capable of solo'ing most server content. Why is this damage not acceptable now?

[Steve]

Pretty much it's Battlerager that gimps this concept from the outset.

But it's totally viable to even choose Fighter 12 / Rogue 12 / FotF 3 / Bodyguard 3 and just Sneak-a-ly punch your way to success.

The elephant is always that people build to solo, and that is sensible, given the paradigm of difficulty to find a regular Group and little RL free time to even play. But given the paradigm of Party Play, really any build is viable because of the concept of unique skills/abilities shared within a group (the basic D&D concept).

[mrm3ntalist]

I like the creativity guys, but dealing 20-30 damage without adamantine fist won't do much against the DR 5-10 mobs in epic levels. That damage is just not viable.

Dwarven defenders do exactly this amount of damage and are seen as the epitome of non-UMD melee builds, capable of solo'ing most server content. Why is this damage not acceptable now?

Because it is not just the damage. That is one way to see it. A high AC, High HP, Epic DR character can stand in melee against a mob longer than a 40AC weaponmaster with a lot of damage can. The more tougher the mobs get, the more important AC and DR get.

Judging a build just by its damage output, ignoring everything else, is just wrong.

As for Kama builds, the possibilities are endless. From SA/hips damage all the way to 18attack/50ac paper cutters.

If you let us know if you prefer doing damage via SA or just plain physical damage, there can be more specific builds.

[Akroma666]

Kama is a million times better.
I'd suggest going Kama claw and getting some monk levels if possible (not sure battle rager alignment off the top of my head.)

Kama flurry with epic charge just sounds nasty sir.

[Zanniej]

As for Kama builds, the possibilities are endless. From SA/hips damage all the way to 18attack/50ac paper cutters.

If you let us know if you prefer doing damage via SA or just plain physical damage, there can be more specific builds.

Well, as close as you can get to a lore-wise Dwarven Battle Rager!
The comment about the kama's is because I thought there are claw-like kama types, making it look like you're fist-fighting.

I think it should be barbarian based, with dwarven battlerager. Everything else is free, I think.

[Storm Munin]

Unfamiliar with battlerager class but shouldnt a STR-based fighter/barbarian/battlerager10 be enough, packing gloves with piercing and/or slashing damage bonus and spikey armor?

OOh, doodad! (FotF) as in Pikel Bouldershoulder is hardly similar to glorious Thibbledorf Pwent and the Gutbuster brigade.


Ranger/FotF to me sounds like the result of Mendel getting hit too hard on the head one day.