Health, DR, and Fast Healing

[Side]

After reading through this thread on effectively building a melee character I went back and looked at a few of my characters, in particular one that is built mostly for defense. There's not a whole lot I can change on it, but in the epic levels I noticed I could switch out two feats from epic constitution to epic damage reduction.

My original goal for the character was to get the three fast healing feats, but this got me thinking, just what is the relationship between damage reduction, fast healing, and raw health? When your AC is not enough which of these is the most important, which should you be most willing to sacrifice to raise the others, and what is the order of priority one should be looking at when building a character?

If an example helps let's assume the character has AC between 45 and 50, no previous DR, 21 constitution at the start of epic levels, 340 health at 30 before feats, and five epic feat slots to fill with a full focus on defense. What would be the most optimal mix of HP, DR, and healing, and if concessions are to be made on any of the three what would the minimum recommended amount of each?

[Theodore01]

When you get hit, it's often from more than one attacker, DR applies on each hit.
Fast Healing is just one tick per round.

In your case 3*DR and one Fast Healing and ....

[Calodan]

Epic DR feats are awesome. If you can get all 3 for a 9/- DR do it.

Secondly Health or HP but I would not get more CON above the 21 needed so scrap that.

Fast healing is only worth it in my mind if you can get all 3 feats for a 9 Regeneration bonus every turn. This of course would stack with any form of Regeneration you have. So if you could get a cloak, A very rare Mith Half Plate. Called Plate of Balduran and a even more rare ring you could in theory without spells have +12 Regeneration on each turn.

I have a build that is built precisely on this perfect scenario and when I tested it in JEGS it was easily mopping up every mob except the drow party and the KILLER BUNNY. It had no issue running the tables on 3 balor lords in the JEGS so I find it quite reasonable as a build. The thing was the build is a two hander. Uses a great axe or war mace. If you were to use it as a one hander with a shield would be more than effective on the server. I solved the damage issue by going 10 levels of Frenzied beserker on it for the IPA boost in Supreme Power attack feat that gives +24 Damage when using a two handed weapon. Can take hits due to DR + REGEN and does around 35-50 damage on the average hit. You get +10 STR when Raging and the Regen negates the HP that ticks off while in frenzy rage and ups damage and AB by +5. A critical hits for over 100. Has supreme cleave too. So in my mind is a great build. Here it is if you want to take a look. To be clear it did all this without the perfect scenario of having that Plate of Balduran and the ring. So it had 2 less REGEN. That +2 regen is useful for sure and if you get a another boost of Regeneration from a caster then it is a meat grinder build for sure. Will chew up and spit out a pink mist of enemies.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?205569

[Side]

Funny you should mention that particular half plate... I just got it yesterday. That said this character already has mithral full plate and the dex bonus to fit it. Unfortunately the fast healing feats only go up to +6 on here (2 per feat), so even if I swapped armors I would heal a little slower than 12 in the end.

I can, however, max out on either DR or fast healing and get two in the other (either 9/- DR with 4 fast healing, or 6 fast healing with 6/- DR). I figured the loss of total HP from con would be fine but wanted to hear it from others before I made any decisions.

Is the extra 3/- DR that worth while? I understand how powerful the first bit of DR is, but after 6 is another 3 that strong? Fast healing doesn't help as much in a single fight, but it reduces the time it takes to get into the next one, and the one after that. I view it more as an endurance feat. Not that taking less damage doesn't add to fighting endurance, but quickly recovering between fights does have it's own advantages.

In my mind the two are very close together in strength, so I'm having trouble separating them and deciding which would be best.

[Theodore01]

Go to the nagas and let 10 of them punch you at the same time - you will feel the difference from 6 to 9 DR

[Calodan]

Funny you should mention that particular half plate... I just got it yesterday. That said this character already has mithral full plate and the dex bonus to fit it. Unfortunately the fast healing feats only go up to +6 on here (2 per feat), so even if I swapped armors I would heal a little slower than 12 in the end.

I can, however, max out on either DR or fast healing and get two in the other (either 9/- DR with 4 fast healing, or 6 fast healing with 6/- DR). I figured the loss of total HP from con would be fine but wanted to hear it from others before I made any decisions.

Is the extra 3/- DR that worth while? I understand how powerful the first bit of DR is, but after 6 is another 3 that strong? Fast healing doesn't help as much in a single fight, but it reduces the time it takes to get into the next one, and the one after that. I view it more as an endurance feat. Not that taking less damage doesn't add to fighting endurance, but quickly recovering between fights does have it's own advantages.

In my mind the two are very close together in strength, so I'm having trouble separating them and deciding which would be best.

Right Fast Healing is only 6 here. Not sure what I was thinking. Must have been thinking it matched the Epic DR feats....probably just wishful thinking there!

Yes the extra 3/- DR is worth more than the Epic CON and Fast Healing. Like I said Fast healing is only worth it if you can get em all. One of those all or nothing kind of feats. Fast healing for me was a boon to make sure when I went into a frenzy with my build the frenzy would not help out the monsters with killing me So if you are going to get any Fast Healing go for all 3 of em. Otherwise potions work just fine there are plenty of good regen potions.

Also remember like it is mentioned EVERY HIT YOU TAKE THAT 9/- DR is removed from the damage. EVERY. EVERY. EVERY. That is a lot of damage!!!! So when you got a mob of 5+ hitting you, you are shrugging off over 50+ damage EVERY HIT. That is pretty substantial in the end.

So yes if you have 2 feats and you use them either on Epic DR, Fast healing, Epic CON and or a combination of any of those you immediately accept that you are going to get only the Epic DR because that is king. It has to do with lessening the damage you take so it is the clear choice on this server the way the mobs are generated in epic dungeons as well as how DMs spawn mobs on you!

[Side]

Fair enough. 9/- DR and 4 fast healing it is then!

I've got plenty of time to change my mind of course, as I'm not even level 20 on that character yet, but I do enjoy the process of planning stuff out like that. Thanks for the help.

[Steve]

One day I'd like to play a build like this: http://nwn2db.com/build/?196029

However, like so many melee builds, its success is really gear dependent, in order to last, in general, from Level 1–30.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...it should be a Half-Orc!!

[Calodan]

One day I'd like to play a build like this: http://nwn2db.com/build/?196029

However, like so many melee builds, its success is really gear dependent, in order to last, in general, from Level 1–30.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...it should be a Half-Orc!!

That build is similar to what I was going to go with for a new spear build that was melee specific. It originally had Epic DR 9/- and Fast Healing 3 in it but I opted to go with a different build due to mechanics really. This build I think would be fun to play if I ever retired Kory. Which for anyone who wants to know I would have retired Kory by now but my wife says I can not until she finally gets on and plays for Kory to find a girl and start a family and be a family guy!

http://nwn2db.com/build/?249551

Anyone know if Combat insight works when one handing a two handed weapon?

[Valefort]

Anyone know if Combat insight works when one handing a two handed weapon?

Yep yep, combat insight means replacing your STR modifier by your INT modifier when computing damage, nothing else.

[Calodan]

Anyone know if Combat insight works when one handing a two handed weapon?

Yep yep, combat insight means replacing your STR modifier by your INT modifier when computing damage, nothing else.

OMG OMG OMG and it is magical damage right? So not resisted?

Me thinks I need to give up on my 4 other builds and just build my spear guy now......

[Rudolph]

If Solar Channeler came out as described, this one would fit the bill - of course it's just a pipe dream now
http://nwn2db.com/build/?249160

[Valefort]

No it's physical damage Calodon, but the damage will be low on that build you linked, same for AB. Going full STR is much better here, combat insight means no more STR damage.

[AC81]

Does combat insight trigger on crit immunes or is it the same as insightful strike which doesn't work on crit immunes?

[Valefort]

Instead of using STR for calculating melee damage you use INT, nothing else.