Spirit shaman/monk of the long death build possibilities?

[Wyatt]

I am interested in possibly pursuing RP aling the lines of a monk of the long death and spirit shaman, utilizing the shaman's abilities to help the monk discover the secrets of death and it's effects on the body. I know we do not actually have a specific kit or PRC for the long death monks but is there any reason a monk could not RP being a member of such an order?

Also I am very unfamiliar with building any sort of gish or caster and the spirit shaman spell list. I am willing to try either a dedicated caster or melee gish (either unarmed or staff wielding) but would like full 30 CL to minimize dispels. I also picture him or her tending more toward neutral than evil, interested in death in the abstract more than killing though I could be tempted to evil potentially.

Also I think I would tend toward human, possibly of Thayan or Mulhorandi origins if that matters at all. I would be open to other races if the rp so dictates though.

Thanks in advance and any and all criticisms are welcome.

Wyatt

[Arn]

I know of no RP reason that you could not play a monk of the Long Death who is also a Spirit Shaman. Although monks of the Long Death don't care about what happens after death, maybe a Long Death monk would want to commune with the spirits to talk to them about what the process of dying was actually like (just as an example). So it could fit together quite nicely, actually.

Some people have said monks of the Long Death dislike undeath, but I think the source material says the Order of the Long Death includes necromancers and such, so I think SS is okay.

If you're playing monk, I might go gish. Monk3/SS19/SF8, plus Practiced Spellcaster, for 29 CL? When my monk was a Monk/SS/SF, he was mostly a caster. But at that time, SS DCs used Wisdom (it was great). I think SS DCs now use Charisma again (as they are supposed to), so I would consider gish.

[Wyatt]

Thank you for the RP input. I was thinking along that very lines, that the monk of the long death wouldn't care about what happened to the spirits after death so much as he would want to commune with them to question them about the process and very instant of death itself. As for the build I am still torn. I was thinking an ultra high charisma caster would lend itself to talking his way out of those troublesome questions regarding corpses etc...

[Wyatt]

Toying around in the builder I came up with this for a caster SS/Monk/Hierophant. I'm certain it could be improved upon but I am out of my element here big time. I haven't played around with trying to build a spirit shaman gish to compare.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?259558

Any suggestions would be extremely welcome.

P.S. I realize the build needs knowledge religion to qualify for hiero. Just threw it together quick.

[Wyatt]

After perusing the spirit shaman spell list I'm wondering if it is worth just playing as a pure caster and keeping shapechange/storm avatar available when the need arises to resort to melee. Is that a viable enough fallback for when DC spells just aren't cutting it? Otherwise I'm not really sure how casters are played. Do they just summon an elemental, buff it and go while supplementing a cast here and there? It seems that they would run out of spells very quickly otherwise. I assume a druid/ss/cleric caster would still have to be ready for a fair bit of physical combat as well.

[Rhifox]

After perusing the spirit shaman spell list I'm wondering if it is worth just playing as a pure caster and keeping shapechange/storm avatar available when the need arises to resort to melee. Is that a viable enough fallback for when DC spells just aren't cutting it? Otherwise I'm not really sure how casters are played. Do they just summon an elemental, buff it and go while supplementing a cast here and there? It seems that they would run out of spells very quickly otherwise. I assume a druid/ss/cleric caster would still have to be ready for a fair bit of physical combat as well.

Shapechange is plenty. Especially if you have Monk. Keep an IMA/Shield wand for when you want to use it, though those two buffs will be weak to dispels.

As for how casters are played? Well, one route is gathering mobs around you and AOEing them down. If you have Telthor, use it, they're very good if you're a pure shaman. If you want to melee, buff and shapechange. Regardless of which, you can maybe have an Elemental, if you want. Elementals aren't that strong but they provide an okay amount of dps. Phantom Wolf/Bear are good too, stronger than elemental but shorter-lasting unless you have Thaumaturge.

[Arn]

Shapechange is plenty. Especially if you have Monk. Keep an IMA/Shield wand for when you want to use it, though those two buffs will be weak to dispels.

As for how casters are played? Well, one route is gathering mobs around you and AOEing them down. If you have Telthor, use it, they're very good if you're a pure shaman. If you want to melee, buff and shapechange. Regardless of which, you can maybe have an Elemental, if you want. Elementals aren't that strong but they provide an okay amount of dps. Phantom Wolf/Bear are good too, stronger than elemental but shorter-lasting unless you have Thaumaturge.

Agreed. SS buffs are pretty great on defense. Shapechange + Freedom of Movement/Tortoise Shell, Premonition, Owl's Insight (excellent on a monk), etc. mean that you'll be surviving most of what the server can throw at you. I prefer Elder Fire Elementals for DPS and summon duration.

Oh, I also took the Fiery Burst reserve feat on my Monk/SS/SF. I actually rarely used Shapechange on that character (didn't really fit his RP), so I ended up relying on Fiery Burst a lot.

I could never get the hang of gathering mobs for AoE blasting on any of my spellcasters, so I often relied on groups.

[Wyatt]

As far as telthor companion goes, how many effective spirit shaman levels do you need for the pet to get to the epic stat level? As best I can tell if you had 20 SS levels with natural bond your pet would be the max non epic level (lvl 15 pet.) Would 20 SS levels with natural bond and epic animal companion get you to the epic pet or would you need more SS levels? I guess I'm trying to figure out how many SS levels (with natural bond and epic animal companion feats) I would need to get to the epic animal companion stats. I suppose I should end charisma on an odd number as well (for a +3 cha item) since I now see that shaman's can't buff their DC casting stat with eagle's splendor.

[Rhifox]

As far as telthor companion goes, how many effective spirit shaman levels do you need for the pet to get to the epic stat level? As best I can tell if you had 20 SS levels with natural bond your pet would be the max non epic level (lvl 15 pet.) Would 20 SS levels with natural bond and epic animal companion get you to the epic pet or would you need more SS levels? I guess I'm trying to figure out how many SS levels (with natural bond and epic animal companion feats) I would need to get to the epic animal companion stats. I suppose I should end charisma on an odd number as well (for a +3 cha item) since I now see that shaman's can't buff their DC casting stat with eagle's splendor.

The way it works is:

Companion is -3 levels, like a ranger's pet. By taking Natural Bond you eliminate this penalty. Epic Companion then allows you to get extra companion levels. In order to get the maximum quality of companion, you need basically full 30 levels of shaman (though you can also multiclass with another class that gives companion progression). You can get a decently effective companion even without a full 30 levels, but it will be weaker than someone who has companion progression on every level.

It should be noted that companion levels and character levels aren't the same. Your companion levels according to its own progression.

The epic level companion stats can be seen below (using a ranger wolf pet, but it is identical statwise to telthor).

Hidden: show

You get the level 17 one at 21 levels of classes with companion progression, 19 at 24, 21 at 27, and 23 at 30. Any multiclassing you do of classes without companion progression will guarantee a lower level companion, but the lower level ones are not that much worse so you can afford a few.

[Wyatt]

Thank you for the info Rhifox. I have put together a few builds that I am considering depending on whether I want to go the gish route or caster route. Any assistance from anyone would be much appreciated.

Caster w/animal companion

STR Gish with 30 CL

Caster with 30 CL and improved knockdown for emergencies

[Nemni]

Knockdown is not very useful if you don't combine it with high strength. Better to take less monk levels and get higher caster level if you want to go the caster route.

Vampiric feast is not a great pick for a non-evil caster. Perhaps epic ruin instead?

Don't forget practiced spellcaster on the first build.

I have tried both caster shaman and melee sacred fist shaman to level 15 or so. The melee shaman was more powerful, but imo less fun. But only you know what you would enjoy

[Wyatt]

I don't know. I have played low str monks and imp knockdown seems fairly reliable even at 14/16 str. Thank you for the heads up about practised spellcaster. I knew I would miss a few things. I thought vamp feast would be fun for long death monk rp. As a neutral monk/ss I assume I may group with evil parties or organizations as well as goodly groups. It also would provide an area for strife which I enjoy having on my characters.

[Wyatt]

As a DC caster spirit shaman should I try to fit in the spell penetration feat line or are the extend/empower/quicken metamagic feats more important? I feel like I am going to have to choose one way or another based on how many feats I have available. Being fairly unfamiliar with magic and casters in general I'm just not sure how to proceed.

[Arn]

I vote metamagic. You don't really run into SR except maybe in PvP. You'll get plenty of mileage out of empower and extend, though. I never really got the hang of quicken, but I hear it's great (at least for arcane casters).