OOC Rule

[Ariella]

Unless there is a mechanical OOC distraction such as a server crash, a bug, mistakenly spawning into the wrong location in game, being otherwise AFK, or another OOC rules exception, your character is to always be considered IC while in the game world outside of the Nexus unless a DM says otherwise.

Can this be changed to also include buying from shops that your character otherwise could not visit, By making use of an AFK flag. E.G Paladin buying from a Devil, Elf Buying from the Red Wizards.

[Theodore01]

Running around with an AFK up is plain annoying and should never be used when active.


Regarding your quote - there are many things that are done OOC like questing , accessing the item-storage under a disguised name , being forced to respawn from fugue at farmlands.......

So maybe that rule should be reformulated.

[Ariella]

AFK flags might be annoying but its a way to display your actions are OOC so you don't get in the way of someone else's RP. It would be better if there was an OOC flag but there is not. You should also not be running around with the flag, It should be applied when entering the premise and removed once out.

[aaron22]

IMO i think if you dont belong you shouldn't be there. in alot of cases the PC wouldn't know about such things. like orcs doing quests from BG. just shouldn't be there. afk tag or not. if my pc wouldn't do something because of how i designed the character to be, then that is a sacrifice i must contend with. after all, i rolled the toon that way knowing there would be difficulties.

returns from the fugue are a completely different matter. put up the afk tag and get away as fast as possible.

there are methods to get to storage or mudd's that may be more challenging or even cost a bit of coin even for outcasted PC's.

[Ariella]

Right so by your logic, No good PC should have any epic gear, pay a lot more or should come up with poor RP excuses. Because out of our four epic shops we have Fiend, thief, thief, Thayan.

Don't get my wrong your suggestion would be ideal, But for it not to be an alignment tilt there would have to be equal alternatives on the other side.

[chad878262]

There is at least one epic shop being worked on for a Neutral / Good faction. The reason the current epic shops are as they are is the players/builders responsible for them were building for those area's. Should other factions submit there REASONABLE requests they will be reviewed for addition to the server. However, it should be understood the Thayans worked a LONG time to get their shop in and no one should expect to just get whatever they ask for instantly. The more work being done internally within the faction the more likely it will get done sooner rather than later. It helps if you have someone within the faction that can build the items, lore, merchant, etc. within the toolset too.

I have heard some players say they "retcon" or "consider it OOC" when they go to Avernus, and I suppose if you are solo or with others that are fine with it than you aren't impacting anyone else's RP. However, it would be quite inconsiderate to do this with the Thayan shop since they are a merchant consortium and have posted many times in the past that you shouldn't do business with them if your character would not do business with them IC'ly. So I guess a good rule of thumb is if going OOC doesn't impact others RP than that's fine, but if it does you should be considerate of this and stay IC, even if it means not getting an item you want.

[Calodan]

Four epic shops? Hell?s Thayan? Tommy Shackles in the Blushing mermaid and where else? I want to see the fourth one.....where is it?

[aaron22]

well then it sounds as though you have justified it for yourself. i did lead with IMO. i wont tell you how to play your character. and you wouldn't be the first lawful good to buy from avernus merchant.

going AFK tag to buy from the merchant to me is counterproductive. you would always be wearing said item and would always know where you got it.. would you have an AFK tag up all the time?

[Ariella]

There is at least one epic shop being worked on for a Neutral / Good faction. The reason the current epic shops are as they are is the players/builders responsible for them were building for those area's. Should other factions submit there REASONABLE requests they will be reviewed for addition to the server. However, it should be understood the Thayans worked a LONG time to get their shop in and no one should expect to just get whatever they ask for instantly. The more work being done internally within the faction the more likely it will get done sooner rather than later. It helps if you have someone within the faction that can build the items, lore, merchant, etc. within the toolset too.

I have heard some players say they "retcon" or "consider it OOC" when they go to Avernus, and I suppose if you are solo or with others that are fine with it than you aren't impacting anyone else's RP. However, it would be quite inconsiderate to do this with the Thayan shop since they are a merchant consortium and have posted many times in the past that you shouldn't do business with them if your character would not do business with them IC'ly. So I guess a good rule of thumb is if going OOC doesn't impact others RP than that's fine, but if it does you should be considerate of this and stay IC, even if it means not getting an item you want.

Normally i might agree with you, But the moment you add something to your store that is pushing the limit on the server's items. Like the +4 headband of intellect which typically is acquired by no other means, Unless your super lucky. Your setting the new stock standed item for that slot and it sets a precedence that you are required to be a Thayan, or friend their of in order to reach this level of power, And further encourages people to put RP aside to reach a mechanically goal.

That said however as it is within the Gate you can just make a new toon and mule, So ultimately a ruling there would just be quality of life. But for places like hell it is required as you can't just make a new toon and run them down there.

going AFK tag to buy from the merchant to me is counterproductive. you would always be wearing said item and would always know where you got it.. would you have an AFK tag up all the time?

From an OOC sense they would, But from an IC sense the item could have come from anywhere. Its a vast world and items are not limited by the NPC shops we mechanically have.

[chad878262]

Normally i might agree with you, But the moment you add something to your store that is pushing the limit on the server's items. Like the +4 headband of intellect which typically is acquired by no other means, Unless your super lucky. Your setting the new stock standed item for that slot and it sets a precedence that you are required to be a Thayan, or friend their of in order to reach this level of power, And further encourages people to put RP aside to reach a mechanically goal.

That said however as it is within the Gate you can just make a new toon and mule, So ultimately a ruling there would just be quality of life. But for places like hell it is required as you can't just make a new toon and run them down there

I don't think it is as major a difference as you do... Honestly one could where a +2 INT item, cast one extended Fox's Cunning and have the same exact DC... What does that extra 2 INT give you in terms of bonus spells anyway? If going from 30-32, for instance you gain a 3rd level spell and a 7th level spell. I'm not saying that is nothing, but it isn't exactly making or breaking a character (at least it shouldn't). Eventually I imagine there are going to be one or two epic type items available in various area's... Kraak Helzaak, Doron Amar, Gullykin, the Mask store, Silver Rose, ORH, etc. It's a matter of which factions take the initiative and/or have the members with skill sets to create them. If, for instance KH builds an epic shop I imagine it will exclude certain races/factions from doing business there...What if that shop has MFP? Is that different than RWoT having a +4 INT helm? Probably not for those characters... This is primarily an RP server, so in order to maintain the RP integrity my guess is most shops will not necessarily be available to every player. There will always be a subset that are opposed due to race, faction, etc.

[ValerieJean]

+1 to aaron22 and Chad.

[Ariella]

Normally i might agree with you, But the moment you add something to your store that is pushing the limit on the server's items. Like the +4 headband of intellect which typically is acquired by no other means, Unless your super lucky. Your setting the new stock standed item for that slot and it sets a precedence that you are required to be a Thayan, or friend their of in order to reach this level of power, And further encourages people to put RP aside to reach a mechanically goal.

That said however as it is within the Gate you can just make a new toon and mule, So ultimately a ruling there would just be quality of life. But for places like hell it is required as you can't just make a new toon and run them down there

I don't think it is as major a difference as you do... Honestly one could where a +2 INT item, cast one extended Fox's Cunning and have the same exact DC... What does that extra 2 INT give you in terms of bonus spells anyway? If going from 30-32, for instance you gain a 3rd level spell and a 7th level spell. I'm not saying that is nothing, but it isn't exactly making or breaking a character (at least it shouldn't). Eventually I imagine there are going to be one or two epic type items available in various area's... Kraak Helzaak, Doron Amar, Gullykin, the Mask store, Silver Rose, ORH, etc. It's a matter of which factions take the initiative and/or have the members with skill sets to create them. If, for instance KH builds an epic shop I imagine it will exclude certain races/factions from doing business there...What if that shop has MFP? Is that different than RWoT having a +4 INT helm? Probably not for those characters... This is primarily an RP server, so in order to maintain the RP integrity my guess is most shops will not necessarily be available to every player. There will always be a subset that are opposed due to race, faction, etc.

You may or may not remember this, But a few years ago guild's use to get special guild tokens. Now these tokens gave a skill bonus while also acting as a faction key. However the issue had arisen that people would join 10 factions or one set faction just to receive that mechanical bonus. This will turn into the exact same thing, People will become part of set factions for set rewards and then all the shops will get removed. It is much easier to just allow ooc shop or clone the shop and slap it in a neutral area.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Then it sounds like you can wait on the neutral area shop.

There'll be neutral shops put in to address the issue, not an OOC rule change as a temporary band-aid.

[kleomenes]

Eventually I imagine there are going to be one or two epic type items available in various area's... Kraak Helzaak, Doron Amar, Gullykin, the Mask store, Silver Rose, ORH, etc. It's a matter of which factions take the initiative and/or have the members with skill sets to create them.

Am I reading this right that epic shops accessible to good PCs are going to be added as a response to player initiative?

Because you know, while becoming item merchants isn't incompatible with playing good pcs (far from it, dwarf PCs being a good example), its definitely not the kind of thing many classic goodly PCs will get into.

I mean take ORH. Its a paladin order that encourages vows of poverty and is unlikely to be rping (at length by the sounds of it?) towards an epic store. Sure you can bend the RP into something justifying it. Perhaps. But its a stretch, and its definitely not what playing paladins is meant to be about.

Generally I think that is fine and think players of good PCs should just roll with it - as the idea of a Thayan store selling quality goods is a good one given the ethical dilemmas it puts forward. Let the results of player RP fall where it may.

There is a difference though with developer added content. The fact is the epic stores that developers have added on their own initiative, and not in response to player RP, are also alignment linked (Tommy Shackles, Avernus). If all shopping is going to be IC this should be balanced out on an equal basis by developers and also at the initiative of developers. Else its just unfair. I can't see how any other position can be defended. Item creation isn't something intrinsically linked to evil and chaos in D&D is it? So the setting should represent that.

There have been suggestions on how to make Avernus more palatable to all alignments, which to me would seem fair. There was no RP that led up to the Avernus store being alignment linked as it is and given its planeswalking context, it doesnt need to be either. That would at least resolve that one.

[mrm3ntalist]

Am I reading this right that epic shops accessible to good PCs are going to be added as a response to player initiative?

Because you know, while becoming item merchants isn't incompatible with playing good pcs (far from it, dwarf PCs being a good example), its definitely not the kind of thing many classic goodly PCs will get into.

I mean take ORH. Its a paladin order that encourages vows of poverty and is unlikely to be rping (at length by the sounds of it?) towards an epic store. Sure you can bend the RP into something justifying it. Perhaps. But its a stretch, and its definitely not what playing paladins is meant to be about.

Generally I think that is fine and think players of good PCs should just roll with it - as the idea of a Thayan store selling quality goods is a good one given the ethical dilemmas it puts forward. Let the results of player RP fall where it may.

There is a difference though with developer added content. The fact is the epic stores that developers have added on their own initiative, and not in response to player RP, are also alignment linked (Tommy Shackles, Avernus). If all shopping is going to be IC this should be balanced out on an equal basis by developers and also at the initiative of developers. Else its just unfair. I can't see how any other position can be defended. Item creation isn't something intrinsically linked to evil and chaos in D&D is it? So the setting should represent that.

There have been suggestions on how to make Avernus more palatable to all alignments, which to me would seem fair. There was no RP that led up to the Avernus store being alignment linked as it is and given its planeswalking context, it doesnt need to be either. That would at least resolve that one.

What you say is true. However devs are so many and shops require a lot of work to be implemented. Of course the ideal thing to do is too have many shops that satisfy all alignments. However this is not possible in reality. Shops are already being worked for other guilds/areas. It just takes time.