Hellfire warlock - Summon baatezu

[RagingPeace]

Summon baatezu: Could the summon be choosable from a list, like the other summon spells are at the moment?

[V'rass]

Sounds like a good idea.

[Blackman D]

no, summon baatezu actually uses a % chance summon setup where when they do the call for the summon the rarer ones are less likely to answer

as far as usefulness goes if thats the main issue, all of the PrC updated summons are finished but not sure if they are in yet, summon baatezu ones are all even now in terms of HD and should all be more useful in combat for whatever role they are

[RagingPeace]

They vary so much in strength.

I'm level 16 at the moment. (13 warlock 3 hellfire)

It summons a rogue type, that has like 22 AC and 150 HP, which is barely useful in any areas due to the low AC.

It summons a sorcerer type with 24 AC and buffs that will boost it to like 28, it shoots fireballs and magic missle, mostly magic missles. Also 150 HP.

Then there's the Nrungnorog which is 200+ hp, 35 AC useful AB, generally an OK summon at my level.

then there's the two top tier: Pit fiend and a cleric type, both at 42 AC. Pit fiend is 300+ Hp and the other is 200. Both with good AB.

In my experience you get the sorcerer type 75% of the time, and it's not really that useful. I find myself resting asap in hope to at least get the Nrungnorog. The planar binding spells are choosable, I figure they are the same kind of summon spells?

Additionally, I don't know if it's a general issue with summoning, but their targeting seems to be off. They seem to mostly fire at the ground of the mobs' position rather than the mob itself, which usually ends in them shooting at nothing. Also, they seem to run to the mobs first position and wait, which results in the summon running far away while the mob is actually attacking you :p

[Blackman D]

They vary so much in strength.

this was the main issue with it yes, the HD range was massive (relatively speaking) but now they are all the same

It summons a rogue type

neeshka, she always gets complaints, tho her AC is a bit better and she will be more useful damage wise - shes still a high level rogue but she will now have feint to make use of the sneak attack dice and the AI will reliably use feint very often, her bluff is not overly high but its enough to be useful

It summons a sorcerer type with

hezebel, erinyes sorceress, think she has a bit better AC but not much because shes ranged and a spell caster, the targeting thing is just how the AI handles AoE spells, they always cast on the ground at the target and not at the target directly - dont remember if i even left those on her but she does have more spells to use

Then there's the Nrungnorog

the horned devil, one of the few good ones originally, might have gotten an increase in HD but otherwise untouched because he didnt really need it

then there's the two top tier

there are 6 summons actually so you are missing one

mephasm is the vampire cleric, he got some more spells and such but was fairly ok

the pit fiend was one of the top ones, pretty much untouched, along with the 6th summon which has like a 1% chance which is the chicken, who is actually another pit fiend so also pretty much untouched

[RagingPeace]

It summons a rogue type
neeshka, she always gets complaints, tho her AC is a bit better and she will be more useful damage wise - shes still a high level rogue but she will now have feint to make use of the sneak attack dice and the AI will reliably use feint very often, her bluff is not overly high but its enough to be useful

She can be useful in the first encounter, if you keep her in stealth, but after that she becomes useless, at least if you're soloing. In a group she might get some sneak attacks in.

It summons a sorcerer type with
hezebel, erinyes sorceress, think she has a bit better AC but not much because shes ranged and a spell caster, the targeting thing is just how the AI handles AoE spells, they always cast on the ground at the target and not at the target directly - dont remember if i even left those on her but she does have more spells to use

(Just got her as we speak she casts mage armor anbd shield, which leaves her at 32 ac.
She also casts Gedlee's electric loop)

I think she may use lightning bolt or chain lighting? Or maybe that's Nrungnorog. I only really noticed magic missles and fireballs, usually because either she's missing the fireballs or shooting them directly at me

Then there's the Nrungnorog
the horned devil, one of the few good ones originally, might have gotten an increase in HD but otherwise untouched because he didnt really need it

I agree, he's in a pretty good place.

then there's the two top tier
there are 6 summons actually so you are missing one

mephasm is the vampire cleric, he got some more spells and such but was fairly ok

the pit fiend was one of the top ones, pretty much untouched, along with the 6th summon which has like a 1% chance which is the chicken, who is actually another pit fiend so also pretty much untouched

Mephasm hits hard, at least when he's buffed. I noticed he did like 14 divine damage per hit, and casts healing spells... Which surprisngly work on him considering he's undead?

My main point was really just wondering if it would be possible to make them choosable from a list, since most other summon spells work like that now. Though I guess most of the summons would just be dismissed then, since people would be aiming for the pitfiend, so the spell would probably need a revamp then? Maybe a workaround would be to boost the rogue and sorcerer in power and increase the chance of summoning the horned devil?

[Blackman D]

She can be useful in the first encounter, if you keep her in stealth, but after that she becomes useless, at least if you're soloing. In a group she might get some sneak attacks in.

atm yes, with the update when she has feint no, if she lands feint she will be able to do sneak attacks for the next round which will improve her usefulness - and before you ask, no she cannot have hips because the AI abuses the hell out of it

and casts healing spells... Which surprisngly work on him considering he's undead?

not sure?
tho he should have both healing and inflict spells now, undead healing themselves will use inflict spells but the healing vfx is the same if you werent paying attention to the actual spell vfx

My main point was really just wondering if it would be possible to make them choosable from a list, since most other summon spells work like that now. Though I guess most of the summons would just be dismissed then, since people would be aiming for the pitfiend, so the spell would probably need a revamp then? Maybe a workaround would be to boost the rogue and sorcerer in power and increase the chance of summoning the horned devil?

well like i said, the ones that were "weak" compared to the stronger ones are stronger, so no summon should be a bad choice when it appears, unless you simply dont like one

[freekender]

The randomness in the HW summons seems, rather strange for me, taking into account that you are summoning devils, which are legal aligned. A random summoning seems more appropiate for demons IMO.

I think an option could be to add the possibility of making a payment for choosing the baatezu. Maybe loosing CON (temporarily or until resting)? Or maybe take a high punch of damage for choosing the summon. Another posibility could be to choose the summon but to still be a chance of not summoning the chosen baatezu.

[Blackman D]

-4 con as payment? and like any other hellfire ability if you are unable to lose con then it does not work, but have it added that if the con penalty is removed before the duration is over the contract is also broken because of breach of payment

[RagingPeace]

That sounds kinda neat ^^

[freekender]

-4 con as payment? and like any other hellfire ability if you are unable to lose con then it does not work, but have it added that if the con penalty is removed before the duration is over the contract is also broken because of breach of payment

That sounds kinda neat ^^

Yes, sounds great!

[Sputnik]

Furthermore, if the contract is broken, the summoned devil becomes hostile to the Warlock and attempts to take their payment in blood!

[Blackman D]

which would defeat the point of removing the ability of them to go hostile in the first place, so unlikely

[RagingPeace]

-4 con as payment? and like any other hellfire ability if you are unable to lose con then it does not work, but have it added that if the con penalty is removed before the duration is over the contract is also broken because of breach of payment

That sounds kinda neat ^^

Yes, sounds great!

Is this something that would be taken into consideration?

[Sputnik]

which would defeat the point of removing the ability of them to go hostile in the first place, so unlikely

I haven't played a Warlock in some time. They removed that feature?