Caster Cleric/Hierophant with Sense Motive

[Vermilion]

I'm having another go at assembling my cleric of Tyr who's aspiring to become a Scale of Tyr (a specialty priest from the 2nd Ed source book Warriors and Priests of the Realms, detailed behind the spoiler tag for convenience)

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For the character to perform this role effectively it's pretty important for her to have Sense Motive invested as fully as possible.

However, neither Cleric nor Hierophant has Sense Motive as a class skill so she's going to be hampered in that regard. (Favored Souls do, however *shakes fist*)

Is there an appropriate prestige class I can dip into without losing caster levels to allow me to maximise the skill more thoroughly? Checking the Wiki, Warpriest has it but I'm skill-starved enough without trying to squeeze in Spot skills as well...

[Steve]

Rogue? They definitely have their own sense of...justice!

Paladin perhaps!

With Practised Caster + Spellpower from Hierophant...the skies the limit, really.

But actually, I'm surprised that not all Base Classes have access to Sense Motive.

[Sun Wukong]

I have a wisdom based Rogue 3/Cleric 17/Hierophant 10 going on. If you are following Tyr, you are most likely a human so the multiclassing experience penalty should not be an issue. (Also being human really helps with those skill points, just saying.)

Anyhow, sense motive is a class skill for the following classes:

Bard, Favored Soul, Monk, Paladin, Rogue, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Dread Pirate, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Harper Agent, Invisible Blade, Guild Thief, War Priest.

Thus, if you are lawful and going for a Wisdom based spellcasting, that 3 level dip into Monk is not that bad idea just get wisdom to your AC instead of fullplate.

If RP allows it, Harper Agent only demands the following skills: Diplomacy 8 ranks, Lore (Local) 4 ranks, Survival 2 ranks - and the following feats: Alertness, Iron Will. (Iron Will is given by the Law domain, which is one of Tyr's on this server.)

[chad878262]

But actually, I'm surprised that not all Base Classes have access to Sense Motive.

Not all classes get it in PnP, including Cleric...

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/dndtools/classes/cleric/

[Vermilion]

Thus, if you are lawful and going for a Wisdom based spellcasting, that 3 level dip into Monk is not that bad idea just get wisdom to your AC instead of fullplate.

Monk seems like a good choice actually, plus I get extra skill points at lvl1 if I start on Monk to put my legal knowledge (history/local) into later.

I have a wisdom based Rogue 3/Cleric 17/Hierophant 10 going on. If you are following Tyr, you are most likely a human so the multiclassing experience penalty should not be an issue. (Also being human really helps with those skill points, just saying.)

Nearly all my characters are human for that very reason! I can never have enough skill points.

[Steve]

But actually, I'm surprised that not all Base Classes have access to Sense Motive.

Not all classes get it in PnP, including Cleric...

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/dndtools/classes/cleric/

Has BGTSCC followed PnP, for example, with Perform?

PnP is just one Standard; improvements can be made!!

[chad878262]

If there is a reason to do so, sure... Would you argue that Cleric or Hierophant are struggling classes that need more skill access to be useful?

I would argue the opposite, that there is no current reason to grant either the base class or the PRC any more benefits. In fact I would say skill access is one of the very few selling points of many Cleric PRC's, such as the previously mentioned War Priest. Granting more skills to the base class or Hierophant would make lesser used PRC's even less in consideration than they already are.

[The Whistler]

Warpriest gets sense motive as well as intimidate and spot.

[chad878262]

Warpriest gets sense motive as well as intimidate and spot.

Which is my point...it is a reason to take Warpriest, if Cleric or Hierophant had these as class skills there is even less reason to take Warpriest.

[Steve]

A Cleric with Able Learner—or not—can still get 16 pts Sense Motive. That's plenty for RP purposes.

And nice way to dodge my point, Chad!

[Tsidkenu]

And my now-retired Aeili had 16 points in Sense Motive without Able Learner to represent her natural intuition as a diviner/astrologer. Then again, she was more wizard than cleric and had 30 base Int, so skill points were not an issue

[chad878262]

And nice way to dodge my point, Chad!

Am I missing something? Your point was that we don't have to go by PnP... I agreed, but stipulated there should be a reason to do so. Further, I provided my take as to why, in this case there is reason not to make such a change (that being there are under used PRC's that open up these skills).

[Vermilion]

Wasn't really sure what to do with the physical ability scores, or which feats to use. This is pretty horrible, right?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?266246

[Sun Wukong]

You could mix in some Sacred Fist, technically speaking the Spell Power feats from Hierophant mean you do not lose any caster level. (Requires 8 points in Lore Religion and Combat Casting feat...) I would switch Divine Cleansing and Maximise spell for Combat Casting and Divine Spell Power.

As for starting ability scores, I kind of would want to have base 14 strength. I would just drop starting wisdom to 16, because with Divine Power you get 20 strength and that is quite fine. It lets you punch through the most common amount of DR on the server '5/-'

Carrying capacity is nice too.

[Vermilion]

You could mix in some Sacred Fist, technically speaking the Spell Power feats from Hierophant mean you do not lose any caster level. (Requires 8 points in Lore Religion and Combat Casting feat...) I would switch Divine Cleansing and Maximise spell for Combat Casting and Divine Spell Power.

As for starting ability scores, I kind of would want to have base 14 strength. I would just drop starting wisdom to 16, because with Divine Power you get 20 strength and that is quite fine. It lets you punch through the most common amount of DR on the server '5/-'

Carrying capacity is nice too.

Oops, forgot to put in the notes that Divine Cleansing = Divine Spellpower.