How to mix rogue / assassin / monk

[HauteCarl]

I have a back story I want to use that would require these classes. Basically a street kid /thief who gets apprenticed to a monk and then later in life he becomes an assassin out for revenge.

How can I mix these effectively?

Dual wielding is acceptable. The character would not be unarmed. First level would need to be rogue.

Thanks for your input.

[chad878262]

There are many ways to mix these depending on what you want to be most focused on. The most 'common' way is to go M11/R10/A9 as this gets you 15 APR with PTWF (16 with haste for a whopping 6 death attacks out of stealth), 10d6 sneak dice with epic precision. However, it is also relatively common to leave Monk at 3 and go M3/R19/A8 which get's Epic Dodge and a bonus epic feat (R19) while still hitting 13 APR with PTWF and flurry of blows (which is still enough for 5 death attacks out of stealth) and 14d6 sneak dice. I've played around with M11/R13/SD3/WD3 which is nice from an RP perspective for skill focus feats while still getting epic dodge, but doesn't have assassin so might not fit your RP idea.

The only rules you should try to make sure and follow is to get Epic Precision, end up with a minimum of 34 Attack Bonus (including Enhancement Bonus from weapons and everything), get as close to mid 40's AC as you can (you probably won't reach 45, but with epic dodge should be ok in low 40's) and make sure to get Assassin 8 ASAP if possible because leveling without HiPS SUCKS!

[HauteCarl]

There are many ways to mix these depending on what you want to be most focused on. The most 'common' way is to go M11/R10/A9 as this gets you 15 APR with PTWF (16 with haste for a whopping 6 death attacks out of stealth), 10d6 sneak dice with epic precision. However, it is also relatively common to leave Monk at 3 and go M3/R19/A8 which get's Epic Dodge and a bonus epic feat (R19) while still hitting 13 APR with PTWF and flurry of blows (which is still enough for 5 death attacks out of stealth) and 14d6 sneak dice. I've played around with M11/R13/SD3/WD3 which is nice from an RP perspective for skill focus feats while still getting epic dodge, but doesn't have assassin so might not fit your RP idea.

The only rules you should try to make sure and follow is to get Epic Precision, end up with a minimum of 34 Attack Bonus (including Enhancement Bonus from weapons and everything), get as close to mid 40's AC as you can (you probably won't reach 45, but with epic dodge should be ok in low 40's) and make sure to get Assassin 8 ASAP if possible because leveling without HiPS SUCKS!

I am working these class splits through the builder now and I am leaning towards M3/R19/A8.
I don't think I want to go with M11 it looks like that is geared towards Flurry of Blows which only works with Kama's and unarmed fists neither are weapons that fit for me. Is there a split with monk levels that is purposefull other than 3 and 11.

[chad878262]

Even with monk 3 you want to use flurry of blows... there are kamas that look like wolverine claws and some that look like wide blades knives (you can change the weapon look). Flurry is the reason to use monk inn a rogue build, mechanically.

[Deathgrowl]

Would check out phantom if I were you!

[HauteCarl]

Would check out phantom if I were you!

I see this class on the wiki but not in the builder. Do you mean Ninja?

[Nyeleni]

Check it out here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49035

[HauteCarl]

The only rules you should try to make sure and follow is to get Epic Precision, end up with a minimum of 34 Attack Bonus (including Enhancement Bonus from weapons and everything), get as close to mid 40's AC as you can (you probably won't reach 45, but with epic dodge should be ok in low 40's) and make sure to get Assassin 8 ASAP if possible because leveling without HiPS SUCKS!

What is the best way to get those 8 levels of Assassin if I go r19/m3/asn8?

I am using the builder, it seems that the quickest way is to take assassin from lvl 6 -13. That puts my 10th Rogue at char level 21. This is the spot where I can take Improved Evasion, and Defensive Roll which seem to be needed for Epic Dodge and Crippling Strike which is needed for Epic Precision. This would be my first character on the server so I am not sure about this but isn't it best to use Epic levels for Epic Feats ( such as lots of Great Dex and ESF as much as possible?

Crippling Strike: Around what level of the content do crit immune enemies really start coming out in force? If it isn't until epic level content I can see the reason to wait on CS / EP.

Thank you.

[chad878262]

At level 20 you want R9/A8/M3. Epics go like this:

21: R10- rogue feat crippling strike, epic feat epic precision
22: R11
23: R12 - epic prowess
24: R13- improved evasion
25: R14- expose weakness
26: R16- defensive roll
27: R17-PTWF
28: R18
29: R19- epic dodge and one free feat (probably great DEX or +1d6 sneak dice.
30: A9

[Deathgrowl]

At level 20 you want R9/A8/M3. Epics go like this:

21: R10- rogue feat crippling strike, epic feat epic precision
22: R11
23: R12 - epic prowess
24: R13- improved evasion
25: R14- expose weakness
26: R16- defensive roll
27: R17-PTWF
28: R18
29: R19- epic dodge and one free feat (probably great DEX or +1d6 sneak dice.
30: A9

How are you ending on assassin9 in a build with only 8 levels of assassin?

[HauteCarl]

At level 20 you want R9/A8/M3. Epics go like this:

21: R10- rogue feat crippling strike, epic feat epic precision
22: R11
23: R12 - epic prowess
24: R13- improved evasion
25: R14- expose weakness
26: R16- defensive roll
27: R17-PTWF
28: R18
29: R19- epic dodge and one free feat (probably great DEX or +1d6 sneak dice.
30: A9

How are you ending on assassin9 in a build with only 8 levels of assassin?

So confusing maybe I should drop monk for shadowdancer.

[Deathgrowl]

Why? Shadowdancer would gain you literally nothing and you'd only lose feats.

Why not just go rogue21/assassin9? It's simple. It works.

[chad878262]

Oops, skipped r15... there is no assassin 9 and the bonus feast comes at level 30 at r19. Trying to do that on the phone kinda sucked.

What's confusing? Basically 21-30 is all rogue. Rogue 10, 13, 16 and 19 get bonus rogue feats so you aren't missing out on epic feats, you gain Ann extra one at r19 (level 30).

[HauteCarl]

Can you give me some feed back on this attempt to do R21 / Asn 9? I left a feat blank not sure between weapon prof / practiced spell caster assassin / able learner. This is my first build ever

http://nwn2db.com/builder/?id=270054

[Nyeleni]

Did you make it public? I cannot access your private builds.