Bone, boss and vendor camping

Suggestions Should Be Posted in Their Respective Categories

Moderators: Moderator, Developer, DM

User avatar
Mork
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Mork »

So we have that rule:
In addition, no meta-game looting. This includes camping at a treasure chest location waiting for resets, locating a character at chests and logging in and out every so often to loot them, etc.
Which nobody cares about/DMs do not seem to enforce it.
Multiple times I've seen one person relogging and camping one boss over and over every 15 minutes of re-spawn. Same happens with bones - people logging every 15 minutes to loot them with their "mule worker" chars.

My suggestion is simple:
- Change it so all containers work like chests (one loot per reset per char)
- Make it so if someone last-hits the boss he won't get any loot second time he kills it until reset.
Server staff seems to care about server economy creating various goldsinks etc. but problem is with mechanics like loot and boss respawn people generate crazy amounts of gold.

When some rule just cannot be enforced it is as it would not be there except it penalizes players that want to play fair.
DM-s simply don't have the time/patience to watch out for the players who do that - which is completely understandable.
Some kind of mechanical solution is required to guard these things if we hope to slow down whole "gold is useless" problem.
Last edited by Mork on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
dedude
Retired Staff
Posts: 1550
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:21 am

Re: Bone and boss camping

Unread post by dedude »

Unfortunately we do have players that don't give a #2 about rules and use any exploit available to them. It can easily ruin a small fragile economy as ours :(

We will do what we can to plug the holes whenever we learn of exploits, but will often have to rely on players helping us identify them. Next update will bring some changes to loot containers, and they will now all use the same reset system. The boss camping is something we have to consider as well.
User avatar
Mork
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Re: Bone and boss camping

Unread post by Mork »

Additionally I'd like to add to this list vendor camping - situation where people have their mule chars logged out in hell shop just for easy OOC acces to items from there through nexus.
Being just couple times in that place I've noticed chars logging in and out as soon as they saw me. Aditionaly some player also boss camps there since I've seen multiple loot bags in outside area with quest boss that is required to kill to leave Avernus.

It would be nice if some mechanical solution to those would be put in place - like removing ability to come back to Avernus from Nex just to make initiatives like "Badgers" have sense.

Similar vendor camping probably happens in certain other random shop. But in this case I can't think of a way to stop it unless you remove that vendor and make him spawn in random locations.
User avatar
Calodan
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Missoula Montana BIG SKY COUNTRY

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Calodan »

The easiest fix is for players to police each other on this. Send tells explaining server rules and when at all possible take screen shots and send in to DMs. It is not enough to just report it. The DMs must have screen shots. As far as FARMING bosses and corpses go I see no issue with it long as you are ON THE MOVE and keep moving for grinding XP and the loot and or if you are level 30 do LOOT LOOPS where you as a full leveled PC run the EPIC Dungeons. There are a handful of players who seem to not care about this though. I often FARM the Epic Bosses with my player Kory Sentinel and I run the dungeon fully and exit then wait the allotted time at the exit or beginning of the dungeon and then fully run the dungeon to the boss. Over and over again. This is not illegal. Logging out while still in the boss room or waiting in the boss room until the next boss spawn however IS.

Farming corpses while on the move is also legal I.E. doing a loop and farming all corpses in an area then killing bad guys until the next reset. Sitting at one set of corpses waiting to reset while IN STEALTH, INVIS or OTHERWISE is illegal and I have seen enough of it at this point. I WILL BE TAKING SCREEN SHOTS OF THE OFFENDERS FROM NOW ON AND PROMPTLY SENDING THEM IN. Behavior like this should and can not be tolerated. I can say I have seen in the past people I know work on this server doing this and I just ignored it. I will turn everyone in. I have been that arse hat and I got punished. By DM Bloodlust and I learned my lesson and promptly changed my ways. So it is not to say that it is not something DMs do not care about. Just that not enough people are reporting it.

Now on to making bosses and corpses just like chests. I do not agree with this. Not with the current fubar RIG loot tables they run here. I have been here for years and the system is just not fair to do that to people currently. Nor would it promote people actually playing one character fully. NO INSTEAD THEY WILL DO WHAT I DO AND HAVE 9+ EPIC PCs to run over and over the dungeons that way. (To be clear I have 9+ PCs because I am a disabled vet with all day on my hands to come play this wonderful server) No the answer is and always will be to report offenders with screen shots and continue to do so.

Just like real world LAWS they can not be enforced without PROOF. Show the DMs some evidence and they can act on it. Until then it is just you accusing some player of something. Take that into account before you throw the DMs under the bus there bud. They are wonderful people who very much care about this server and the rules of it. After all they are the ones who made the rules. ;)
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"

"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
User avatar
Glowfire
Posts: 1813
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Bone and boss camping

Unread post by Glowfire »

dedude wrote:Next update will bring some changes to loot containers, and they will now all use the same reset system.
This will be a welcome change.
Power is the most persuasive rhetoric.
Friedrich von Schiller
User avatar
Mork
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Mork »

I wonder how problematic and CPU-heavy would it be to create log mechanism (if such does not exist) that notes when and who killed/looted some boss/chest.

Then it would be a matter of checking logs once per couple weeks and redistributing "awards" for best campers :)
User avatar
Calodan
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:21 pm
Location: Missoula Montana BIG SKY COUNTRY

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Calodan »

Mork wrote:I wonder how problematic and CPU-heavy would it be to create log mechanism (if such does not exist) that notes when and who killed/looted some boss/chest.

Then it would be a matter of checking logs once per couple weeks and redistributing "awards" for best campers :)
This does not work. The log would only say who looted. It can not say if they were ON THE MOVE or CAMPING. Again we the player have to police each other and take screen shots.
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"

"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
User avatar
Valefort
Retired Admin
Posts: 9779
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:07 pm
Location: France, GMT +2

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Valefort »

We could go full big brother transparency style and make a public list of the looting who, where, when and even the estimated gold value of the loot :lol:

YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE, DO YOU MISTER ANDERSON ?

Not doing that ever ! Anyway there won't be any point in bones camping, boss camping can still be a thing but come on ... don't do it if others people are around.
Mealir Ostirel - Incorrigible swashbuckler
chad878262
QC Coordinator
Posts: 9332
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by chad878262 »

Regarding loot - As dedude and Valefort said there are some changes coming and, if I am not mistaken the changes are not limited to just making everything once per reset. There were also some issues with area/chest levels which prevented higher risk/more difficult areas from having the appropriate chance of spawning better loot. Obviously testing will be needed, but theoretically chests/corpses should be more rewarding IF the player is in a CR appropriate area. The goal is to keep players in level appropriate area's after all. ;)

Regarding Bosses - Simply put, for a given level range, unless you are a power build or can get an appropriate group together there are certain area's that are far more costly to go adventure in, even if they are CR appropriate. In these cases players of certain builds are actually kind of pushed toward redoing the same area's if they want to level without high risk of losing XP and, worse if they are the few who don't take the penalty and if no one raises them they RCR to some other character or start over. Further, as Calodan pointed out there is no rule against players redoing an area, including the boss and thus there would be no reason to create any development effort to track or stop it from happening. If the admins wanted to do that sort of thing it would be a mistake in my opinion as some of the player base that rely's on certain known area's would have the option to either brave an area they know is too difficult (which could lead to rage quit), log in as a different character (which is not the desired outcome), or just log off (also not really what we are aiming for).

In general, those I have run in to (like Calodan) are more than happy to take a 30 minute break if they are 'farming' a dungeon/boss area to allow another individual or group time to RP, loot, run the dungeon, take on the boss or whatever. My suggestion would be to In character make it known that you/your group is looking to take on whatever and, if that doesn't get the job done just send a (friendly) OOC tell to let them know you'd appreciate if they took a break or went elsewhere so you could have a turn. If they get salty and/or refuse, continuing to farm an area they've been in for the past hour+ then screen shot the conversation and send it in. I have a hard time believing it would ever get to that point though... Grinders just want to be left alone to their looting/boss fighting/xp grinding/questing/whatever so in general if asked to allow for others to use the area they're more than happy to oblige.
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands
User avatar
Mork
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Mork »

Valefort wrote:Anyway there won't be any point in bones camping, boss camping can still be a thing but come on ... don't do it if others people are around.
What about vendor camping problem I've described above? Makes idea of hard to access vendors completely obsolete. Any chance suggestion to remove option to come back to Avernus from Nexus or any other solution to this will be considered?
chad878262 wrote: My suggestion would be to In character make it known that you/your group is looking to take on whatever and, if that doesn't get the job done just send a (friendly) OOC tell to let them know you'd appreciate if they took a break or went elsewhere so you could have a turn. If they get salty and/or refuse, continuing to farm an area they've been in for the past hour+ then screen shot the conversation and send it in. I have a hard time believing it would ever get to that point though... Grinders just want to be left alone to their looting/boss fighting/xp grinding/questing/whatever so in general if asked to allow for others to use the area they're more than happy to oblige.
To be honest from that side it never bothered me too much since I can always go some place else. Problem is amount of gold that get generated this way.
Are you guys saying that it is completely ok and not against rules (meta-looting) to boss camp if you'll let another party take their turn once in a while?

Me taking my turn once in a while is not a problem - problem is if I want gold I got from "taking my turn" to be worth something others cannot farm it in milions logging in and out every couple moments. If this won't change you simply force anyone who wants his gold to have any value (on auctions etc) to start camping too.

I was hoping reason for this situation is in DM-s not having the patience to deal with it, and not "silent allowance" to break server rules. Unless what you guys wrote is just personal opinion and not staff statement?
User avatar
Endelyon
Posts: 3606
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:24 am

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Endelyon »

Mork wrote:Are you guys saying that it is completely ok and not against rules (meta-looting) to boss camp if you'll let another party take their turn once in a while?
Did you report the people doing the boss-camping to the DM team? To clarify, if no one is wanting a turn in an area, you or any other player can stay in that area and kill the boss and everything else as much as you want whether you're grinding for exp or doing it for loot.

What you can NOT do is park your character in that area, save your location, and log out the boss room only so you can log in to kill it every 15 minutes--that is definitely against the rules. What you also can NOT do is park a character in front of some treasure chests, log into that character once per reset to loot those chests, only to log out and put them on your mule at the next reset before doing it again.

That said, I don't recall seeing any player reports of a situation like this lately. Don't just assume that because you're seeing it happening that everyone must see it happening and just be silently okay with it. The rules will be enforced unilaterally if the rulebreaking is brought to light, so if you see something like this going on, just report it to the DM team. :)
User avatar
Mork
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Mork »

I'm this kind of grinder myself (eg actually running around from place to place) so I get the idea. Usually I change places often enough so it never becomes a problem to others. I'll be sure in future to remember to make a screenshot if someone logg-out farms. Today I've send one of the DMs pm about bone-camping.

Still I think general solution of making bosses generate loot only once per reset for last-hitting character would work much better.
User avatar
Lockonnow
Posts: 3109
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:10 pm

Re: Bone, boss and vendor camping

Unread post by Lockonnow »

I hope that the bones and crate and other that has a spot lock free now will get the same loot system as chest couse what they have now do only give +4 item and nothing epic
User avatar
dedude
Retired Staff
Posts: 1550
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:21 am

Re: Bone and boss camping

Unread post by dedude »

Mork wrote:Additionally I'd like to add to this list vendor camping - situation where people have their mule chars logged out in hell shop just for easy OOC acces to items from there through nexus.
Being just couple times in that place I've noticed chars logging in and out as soon as they saw me. Aditionaly some player also boss camps there since I've seen multiple loot bags in outside area with quest boss that is required to kill to leave Avernus.

It would be nice if some mechanical solution to those would be put in place - like removing ability to come back to Avernus from Nex just to make initiatives like "Badgers" have sense.

Similar vendor camping probably happens in certain other random shop. But in this case I can't think of a way to stop it unless you remove that vendor and make him spawn in random locations.
I brought this up but no one else felt it to be a problem. Vendor camping is deemed within the rules.
User avatar
Mork
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:51 pm

Re: Bone and boss camping

Unread post by Mork »

dedude wrote: I brought this up but no one else felt it to be a problem. Vendor camping is deemed within the rules.
So no one sees a problem with bringing retired/mule chars to hell shop whose all purpose in life will be transferring gold to them so they can buy whatever player wants to transfer it back to other chars next reset through nexus? Doesn't that sound like too much meta to anyone?
Post Reply

Return to “Suggestions and Discussion”