Necromancer build suggestions

[AkaeBR]

Hi all

I'm planning to play a necromancer with high DC's and maybe summons.

I thought about giving palemaster a try since i really like summons (and the RP) and from what i read this prc's summon is useful, plus the class gains some good defenses. (maybe a W6/RWT10/Palemaster10/BM4, or W10/RWT10/Palemaster10)


On the other hand, however, I thought about adding archmage levels to increase spell DC's even further and remove palemaster - maybe something like W10/RWT10/AM10, or W6/RWT10/AM10/BM4.

Also, Shadow Adept is not an option cause i dont want to lower the character effectiveness with other spell schools.

I'm not experienced with arcane spellcaster since i have never played one, but what would you guys recommend? Is palemaster really worth it? is it solid to build a DC caster? Would the Archmage path be overall more effective?

Thx in advance!

[chad878262]

Is palemaster really worth it? is it solid to build a DC caster? Would the Archmage path be overall more effective?

Palemaster is hands down the best defensive PRC for a wizard. While it doesn't HELP your DC's it doesn't HURT them either. After all it costs nothing other than levels. While 4 levels of Archmage could help increase your DC by 1 it is not needed. Red Wizard is an RP choice you need to make. It will help you increase your Caster Levels (and thus your DC) for Necromancy, but you lose a 2nd school. Were you to select Evocation and Transmutation as your opposition schools for Red Wizard there is quite a bit of synergy with Shadow Adept. Though losing those two schools all together is rough (bigby, flesh to stone, IGMS, etc). Fact is that any school can be lost so long as you understand where that hurts you and how to compensate (instead of Bigby use things like Solipsism, Grease, etc.)

Either of your level splits will work, by the way... You just need to determine how you want your character to work.

[Deathgrowl]

While it doesn't HELP your DC's it doesn't HURT them either.

It's 10 levels that could be spent for a class that has DC bonus. It's also 6/10 progression, which means you'll have to use a feat on practiced spellcaster.

I'd say palemaster in most situations hurt your DCs. All about compromise, though.

I've played a Wizard16/Palemaster10/Archmage4 to some success. If you want to go Red Wizard, you can easily go Wizard10/pm10/redwizard10. Good DCs.

If you want to use summons, though, I'm not sure I'd go a specialist necromancer. You're most likely going to have to pick prohibited schools that have buffs in them, and summons benefit a lot from buffs.

[chad878262]

It's 10 levels that could be spent for a class that has DC bonus. It's also 6/10 progression, which means you'll have to use a feat on practiced spellcaster.

I'd say palemaster in most situations hurt your DCs. All about compromise, though.

Fair enough, you could gain 2 more great INT's with Wizard in epics for 1 more DC or otherwise get a point here or there. However you can still get strong DCs while gaining an excellent summon, immunity to crits, bonus AC etc. I would say PaleMaster can make a fantastic DC Necromancer. In addition the one feat (PSC) is a lot cheaper than the requirements for Archmage.

[AkaeBR]

Great answers guys! Thx!

It's 10 levels that could be spent for a class that has DC bonus. It's also 6/10 progression, which means you'll have to use a feat on practiced spellcaster.

I'd say palemaster in most situations hurt your DCs. All about compromise, though.

Fair enough, you could gain 2 more great INT's with Wizard in epics for 1 more DC or otherwise get a point here or there. However you can still get strong DCs while gaining an excellent summon, immunity to crits, bonus AC etc. I would say PaleMaster can make a fantastic DC Necromancer. In addition the one feat (PSC) is a lot cheaper than the requirements for Archmage.

And the theme PM necro would make for great RP! Archmage would grant +3 DC and some other goodies, but it's costly in feats. I'm not very familiar with the blood magus spell system (spells cast as abilities), but would it be a good idea to get 4 lvs in it (W6/BM4/RWT10/PM10) instead of going 10 lvs in wizard (W10/PM10/RWT10)? Will it increase DC's at all?

[chad878262]

Short answer is caster level does not equal DC. You gain +1 DC for every 3 caster levels past 20 so depending on build you cam get higher DC by reaching CL 32, 35, 38...

[V'rass]

Clerics make better necro's then mages with the right domains. While you do lose out on many necro spells the ones you do get are potent and combine them with turning ability and other benefits that come with being a cleric and you can be almost unstoppable in pve and pvp. We had such a character on the server a few years ago... Zeno something?

[Deathgrowl]

Clerics make better necro's then mages with the right domains.

Tell me how!

While you do lose out on many necro spells the ones you do get are potent

You keep finger of death. Sort of. You get destruction. But you lose Wail of the Banshee. On the other hand, you get Harm and all the inflict spells.

I'd still go wizard for DC necromancer, though. Wail of the Banshee is just too good.

For buffing summons, wizard is probably better. No cleric can get as good long-term summons as a palemaster either.

I just tested my wizard9/pm7/archmage1, with its mummy warrior:

What doesn't come from this picture is that it also has improved knockdown. That combined with that kind of strength is actually pretty devastating. Only drawback is that the mummy can't run.

And the pm10 vampire is even better.

[Planehopper]

Holy (or unholy perhaps) moly.

What can we do to bump up some cohort AC? That mummy looks leaps and bounds above any other summon.

[Blackman D]

well it also looks like its buffed tho so yea a buffed summon will always look better than an unbuffed one

[AkaeBR]

Short answer is caster level does not equal DC. You gain +1 DC for every 3 caster levels past 20 so depending on build you cam get higher DC by reaching CL 32, 35, 38...

considering I would get practiced spellcaster to counter the 6/10 CL progression from PM, would 4 lvs of BM benefit on DC's is what I meant to ask

[Nachti]

PM summons will be balanced again with next patch. Dont expect these numbers to stay.

[chad878262]

Short answer is caster level does not equal DC. You gain +1 DC for every 3 caster levels past 20 so depending on build you cam get higher DC by reaching CL 32, 35, 38...

considering I would get practiced spellcaster to counter the 6/10 CL progression from PM, would 4 lvs of BM benefit on DC's is what I meant to ask

Assuming we look at your build W6/RW10/PM10/BM4 your caster level will be:
26 + 4 (PSC) + 5 (Red Wizard) + 1 (Blood Component) = 36 so no, Blood Magus does not help your DC's since 35 is already getting you +2 to DC and you would need 38 to get a 3rd DC bump past 30. This is where DG correctly pointed out that PM does hurt your DC's in that W12/RW10/AM4/BM4 would hit 38 for 1 more DC, but it would be quite a bit more feat starved due to the immense qualification requirements for Red Wizard and Archmage (though there are some synergies to the requirements which helps.)

By the same token, W6/RW10/PM10/AM4 wouldn't increase your DC either since you would only hit CL 37 and would need AM6 to get SPIII and reach 38. As DG said it is all give and take. If you want the HIGHEST DC (without taking 3 levels of Shadow Adept) you really have to leave PaleMaster out of the character build. W20/RW10 might get the highest DC due to CL35 plus you could hit level 20 as a W16/RW4 and would get 3 bonus epic feats at W20, RW5 and RW10 for 8 total epic feats which would allow for epic spell focus necromancy and 7 Great INTs. 18+7=25 INT from normal level ups. 7 more from epic feats gets you to 32 INT (36 after Fox Cunning). Of course you could go for 5 great INT's and get 2 epic spells as well. It's all give and take, how much DC do you want/need vs. how much other neat stuff you want from PRC's and epic feats. Note that going W10/RW10/AM10 would get +1 DC at the cost of 2 Wizard Feats (over W20/RW10). In addition, one of the lost feats would have been epic, so you would be looking at getting ESF, 1 Epic spell and 5 Great INT's. Finally, you could go W10/RW10/AM6/BM4 which could hit CL38 as well as getting you the Blood Magus goodies (scarification and blood draught).

And as I said originally, even with PaleMaster in your build you can still reach solid DC's. Let's look at your original build W6/RW10/PM10/BM4. At level 20 you will be W5/RW3/PM9/BM3. Thus you will get 2 bonus epic feats from RW5/10 and have 7 total. Let's Assume you have 25 INT from level ups +5 from Epic Feats, along with Epic Spell Focus Necromancy and one epic spell. Thus your DC for Wail of the Banshee will be:
10 + 12 (INT) + 3 (ESF) + 5 (CL35) + 1 (Red Wizard) + 9 (Spell Level) = 40. It is not 'perfect' as DC's can get to the mid 40's, but it is still very good.