Dual-wielding Ranger

[clean_slate]

Hello guys!

It seems that we have some new classes to play with, all along with generous free RCR for August, so I was thinking of rolling a new toon.

I like elves, and I like Rangers - so new class - Harper Scout intrigued me. I would like to make a classic melee Ranger so I was wondering if someone can help me with it. I like pure classes, so the character doesn't necessarily need to multiclass into HS or something else, I would just want the best build possible.

Here are some of my guidelines for the build which I would like it to have :

Final STR of 30, with buffs.
Improved Knockdown
30 CL
Melodic Chainmail for armor - so starting Charisma of 8 and Dexterity of 14 is enough.

Thanks in advance!

[Nyeleni]

Adapt as you like it: http://nwn2db.com/build/?228318

Elves are much better than halflings for strength rangers anyways .

[clean_slate]

I did some thinking and testing in the JEG's, and I've come up with an alternative build :

Ranger 11/Fighter 16/Anointed Knight 3

I was thinking of alternatives to pure Ranger and this had come up. Ranger 11 will qualify for Improved Two Weapon Fighting and also give me some RP skills and utility - Toughness and most importantly Evasion.

Fighter 16 allows for lots of feats as well as damage building, and Anointed Knight 3 rounds up the build with saves and opens up Spellcraft and Tumble + gives Blind Fight.

A side question - if I wear Mithral Chainmail and wield handaxes or kukris with Combat Expertise on, would Deadly Defense damage bonus apply?

[CrimsonMist]

Pure ranger is pleasantly strong as well.

You'll probably want 14 wis for spells too so your starting lineup would look like

Str ?
Dex 14
Con ?
Int ?
Wis 14
Cha 8

With the elf +2 Dex you'll have 22 of your initial 32 ability score points left.

It gets expensive to put too many points into Con so I set mine at 12 (14-2)

As a wood elf you can easily start with an reasonable strength score of 17 if you want to squeeze 13Int in for (Imp.) Combat Expertise (you may need the extra AC.) If you dump Int, which I personally wouldn't do, you can start at max strength or put more points into Con, though the elf penalty will hamper you.

Wild elf avoids that penalty but you don't have the strength bonuses, which will make it significantly harder to reach your desired 30 Str

[Nyeleni]

Deadly defense should apply. Although I'm not sure it works always as intended.

[chad878262]

How is deadly defense buggy? I haven't seen any bug reports lately and it consistently worked in all my tests. If there are some specifics you can give I'd like to confirm them and pass them on to Dev as I'm fairly certain we all though of Deadly Defense as fixed and working as intended.

As to the builds, Ranger 11 isn't where you want to stop if you plan on using stealth. R13 gets camouflage and R17 gets HiPS. Also Ranger spells are awesome...

You could consider going R21/HS5/F4 (or AK4). You will still get PTWF, Bane of Enemies and CL30 that way. I personally would just go R25/HS5, but I can see the minor benefit of Weapon Specialization and a couple extra feats from fighter. I don't see the benefit of AK since Rangers have a spell to give blindfight and the will saves will still be too low.

[Theodore01]

Deadly defense works wonderful. (Only thing to 'learn' is the need to switch it on manually.)

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

For a dedicated Ranger, the two best options, IMO, are 30 Ranger or 26 Ranger/4 Harper Scout. I'd skip fifth level of HS because you will lose Epic bonus feat from Ranger, and also 1 BAB. Not worth it for one use of Heroism which can be obtained through other means anyways.

Versions with 21 levels of Ranger are even worse, since you lose 1 point of AC from Protective Ward, 2 Epic bonus Feats, 1 FE group.

Pure Ranger will retain full animal companion progression - with Natural Bond a Boar can pack quite a punch. 7 FE, lots of feats and pretty straightforward build.

26 Ranger/4 HS is a more rounded build since it will allow for better will saves, tumble access and 8 FE groups. You will be more feat starved, though.

For a non-dedicated Ranger build, I like your version. It is a solid build.

Mrm3ntalist is authority on Ranger builds, he can maybe provide some more insight.

[Nyeleni]

How is deadly defense buggy? I haven't seen any bug reports lately and it consistently worked in all my tests. If there are some specifics you can give I'd like to confirm them and pass them on to Dev as I'm fairly certain we all though of Deadly Defense as fixed and working as intended.

SNIP.

Swashbuckler Duelist with One Weapon and Combat Expertise. I have no idea if it is working or not. It might though. Also I heard it was buggy, if you fixed it, all the better.

[mrm3ntalist]

A ranger 30 is the most powerful way to build a ranger in general. You can make an STR/DEX/ WIS, more offensive (PA/IPA) or defensive (CE/ICE) ranger focused on archery, melee or both, resulting in a fun to play build with a power level appropriate for the servers difficulty.

Other than ranger30, there is the cavestalker PRC which is the only prc suitable 100% for rangers (progresses FEs, spellcasting and companion ), however it has a race specific prerequisite. A ranger/cavestalker is a must combination for the UD.

About the ranger21/x9 builds ( usually assassins ) were not as efficient in the past. That has changed by a lot with the Avernus shop and the Hunter kit. A ranger(hunter)22/Assassin8 can end up with 7FEs, global hips, no wisdom requirement ( you can dump it at 8) so more ability points to spend on STR/DEX and no need for spellcasting feats such as PSc and Extend. I am trying such a build for a friend, it is very fun to play and other than the useless companion ( not only because it loses progression but because you cant buff it ) it can be as powerful as a ranger30.

Finally regarding the choice between STR or DEX. In the past an STR was a no brainer mechanically. That has changed with the many feats that were introduced that favor light weapon/DEX builds. The global storage negated the advantage that STR characters have by a lot.

In summary, if i was to choose one ranger to play, that would be a ranger30 dex based, human. CE and ICE, Deadly defense, Extend metamagic. Ideally STR should be around 16, otherwise 14 is a good point to stop. The only annoying thing rangers have is that there are not enough spell slots to buff your companion so one has to get into the boring habit of swapping his gear with spell slot items before rest, in order to buff the animal companion. Unfortunately, even though we gave rangers full CL progressions, we didnt make their spell slots to progress accordingly and are still based on half CL progression.

[clean_slate]

@mrm3ntalist thanks for the elaborate answer. I have a few follow up questions if you don't mind?

Hunter. How do you reach 7 FE with 22 levels in Ranger/Hunter?

Also, why would Dex be a better choice for a Ranger? I thought that the whole advantage of the class is that is allows TWF feats without meeting DEX requirements, thus allowing you to focus on STR and improve damage with it?

On a side note, is there a list of items which can be bought in that Avernus Shop? I would like to know so I can plan accordingly around these items.

[mrm3ntalist]

@mrm3ntalist thanks for the elaborate answer. I have a few follow up questions if you don't mind?

I dont mind answering, unless you tell my boss

Hunter. How do you reach 7 FE with 22 levels in Ranger/Hunter?

Hunter gets a bonus FE at hunter4 and 8. You lose spellcasting though

Also, why would Dex be a better choice for a Ranger? I thought that the whole advantage of the class is that is allows TWF feats without meeting DEX requirements, thus allowing you to focus on STR and improve damage with it?

A dex will be better because it generally suits the ranger better ( better stealth, easier to raise AB ) there are better items ( especially armors and weapons ) that suit DEX rangers. For example there is a +4robes with +4hide/ms. Good luck finding something like that for a mithar chainshirt/mail or breastplate. In addition finessable weapons can be found with hide/ms on them +4EB and bonuse damage. There are none medium/heavy weapons with such stats as far as i know. Finally the damage is mitigated mostly because of Deadly Defense. With an average of 2.5 damage that is 4 ability points for the main hand 8 for the off hand. The damage difference is negligent,

I explained before about how the global storage removes the advantage STR chars have with carrying capacity

On a side note, is there a list of items which can be bought in that Avernus Shop? I would like to know so I can plan accordingly around these items.

I am at work - hence the dont tell my boss - so from the top of my head those items are
- ninja boots
- Robes of the stars
- ninja hood or something, the one with the Stealthy feat
- gloves of the rogue
- Cloak of the stalker and/or Silent

You then need to find rings, belts and amulets.

[Nyeleni]

List of the items in Avernus shop (thanks to Mork who left for another server for the hard work putting it up):

http://zielakxa.vot.pl/bgtscc/

Some items might have been changed, also the price depends on skill and feats. You might get it cheaper or more expensive.

[clean_slate]

Thanks mrm and Nyeleni (and others for their input).

[amped]

How is deadly defense buggy? I haven't seen any bug reports lately and it consistently worked in all my tests. If there are some specifics you can give I'd like to confirm them and pass them on to Dev as I'm fairly certain we all though of Deadly Defense as fixed and working as intended.

As to the builds, Ranger 11 isn't where you want to stop if you plan on using stealth. R13 gets camouflage and R17 gets HiPS. Also Ranger spells are awesome...

You could consider going R21/HS5/F4 (or AK4). You will still get PTWF, Bane of Enemies and CL30 that way. I personally would just go R25/HS5, but I can see the minor benefit of Weapon Specialization and a couple extra feats from fighter. I don't see the benefit of AK since Rangers have a spell to give blindfight and the will saves will still be too low.

Only thing to note is that turning on deadly defense breaks stealth in game. Other than that it seems to work perfectly with my commando.