Suggestion: Disguise Summons

[Mork]

Since couple days I run around with a vampire. I don't go with him to obvious places like towns etc. When possible on meeting someone I try to role-play it is just some woman in monk robes.
I have a high disguise skill - can I or not disguise my own summons?

With how vampires look it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Some people seem to be ok with it but some simply ignore disguise when I try to emote it. To me it seems like metagaming - claiming that their char knows what that summon is without any actual spot check or detect spell.

Today I've had a talk with some char. He refused to acknowledge a disguise and claimed all undead are KOS. I couldn't find exact rule on the forums but would it apply to situation when someone emotes actual disguise? As far as I know drow are also sufrace KOS but no one can metagame without any rolls claiming his char knows who disguised /helmet wearing char is.

I'm interested in opinions from staff. 2 Questions especially:

1. Is currently such thing as disguising your summons legit?
2. If not and players are free to ignore it without any rolls then can it be discussed as something to add in future? Perhaps as some custom graphic?

[Calodan]

One instance of the Undead KOS rule is here.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=60832&p=764461#p764461


Actual rule is here.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3170

See Familiars, Companions, Summoning and Shapeshifting.

[Hawke]

It sounds like a suggestion, can we have a tool to disguise our summons.


In PnP you use your disguise skill (with a negative modifier I think) to disguise someone else.

[Zanniej]

The actual rule is:

Summoned creatures may be attacked on sight, but regular PvP rules must be followed for the aggressor and the owner of the summoned creatures. "Summoned creatures" are defined as any creature that can be summoned or called through a spell or ability, and is not a Familiar, Animal Companion, Dragon Companion, or Telthor Companion.

You pose an interesting question, but according to the rules as they are now (which do not account for the disguise skill) others are allowed to attack and kill your summon if they wish. (or at least, that's how I interpreted it)

You can ofcourse open up the conversation with the DMs to take into account the disguise skill.

[Mork]

Ok so we've found that rule. There is also a KOS rule on drows but no one can freely kill them while they're disguised/wear helmet on the sufrace so my thoughts were same rule should apply to summons if someone had a chance to emote a disguise on it.

That is why I'm interested in clarification, and perhaps option for having some custom graphic on disguised summon somewhere in a future?

It is both question, request for clarification and suggestion that is why I've put it in general forums but if you feel like it belongs more to suggestions feel free to move it.

[Zanniej]

Then I shall move it to the suggestions forum, because quite frankly, there is no rule for disguising summons. I think you're the first to come up with that.

It's a fair point and I think it should be taken into consideration

EDIT: Do you prefer the RP/PVP subforum, or the mechanics subforum?
I guess it comes done to whether you want a ruling, or to be able to actually disguise your summon.

[Mork]

That reminds me - there is an option to summon human-looking version of succubus so perhaps something similar could be added to summon greater undead for chars with lets say 30+ disguise? (both spell and Palemaster skill)
After all lore-wise vampires themselves were quite proficient deceivers.

[Hawke]

If you want Mork, you could change the title of the thread to Suggestion: Disguise Summons.

This might get a better response of folks to get what you would like to, accomplished.

[Mork]

First let me apologize for any weak RP it could cause lately as I see how it was totally players right to ignore my emotes with as some stated in this thread me being first who thought about and tried it. Thanks to all who decided to roll with it despite rules being unclear on the subject.

I'm requesting a mechanical solution cause it could be quite hard to convince people due to existing assumptions about this rule witch I believe are not as obvious as some might think as in example about KOS drows on surface and disguises that make them non-KOS unless properly identified (it should apply to summons as well).

As suggested I've changed subject of this topic. For now I'll stop attempting to explain to players that my summon is disguised until proper ruling will be present as it leads to unpleasant experience for both sides. However such clarification would be most welcome especially with support of mechanical implementation so PLAYERS could tell right away if summon is disguised or not (without need for my emotes) and make their CHARACTERS behave accordingly.

[dedude]

It's not exactly disguising, but I have been looking into allowing those summons with shape changing abilities to change into standard-race "commoners" in order to blend in. This doesn't invalidate your suggestion, just wanted to give a heads-up on it.

[Storm Munin]

Disguising an undead summon (or whatnot) should be feasable via disguise other spell?

[Planehopper]

Or Polymorph, but that changed more than appearance. It doesn't work anymore however, because of "RP exploits"? Another case of one bad apple ruining a bushel.

[Mork]

Disguising an undead summon (or whatnot) should be feasable via disguise other spell?

I see no reason why not but spell and natural disguise work differently when it comes to identification.
If such differences can be sorted then it should be ok to use disguise other spell on summons.

[flipside43]

Does detect undead work against summoned undead when they are not hostile? I don't know. That would be something that would need to work if they were being disguised.

[Mork]

Does detect undead work against summoned undead when they are not hostile? I don't know. That would be something that would need to work if they were being disguised.

Yup it should work I guess. (Unless someone also casts nondetection on summon)
However unless someone already has a spell active or actuall RP reason to cast it then still using that spell the momment PLAYER recognizes disguised model of an undead (considering it will be implemented) would be quite meta.