Chaos Spell forces Save by Caster

[Steve]

The spell Chaos forces a Save by the Caster.

Very Dangerous Feature or Bug?!?

[dedude]

Working as intended. Confusion also affects the caster if he is within the AoE. Care is advised!

[Steve]

How does it make sense then, to have a Medium Range but a Large area of effect?

[Steve]

Furthermore, if Chaos is based on the Confusion spell, then check out the Range/AoE for it:

Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: All creatures in a 15-ft. radius burst

At the very least, in order to translate that to NWN2 terms, the Range should be Long and the AoE should be Short range.

[dedude]

The two spells have the same range (20 feet) and AoE radius (15 feet). If you can convince QC that they need to be changed I'm fine with that. But I'm also fine with their current stats. I have used the confusion spell quite a bit and had no problems with positioning.

[Steve]

Does that mean the spell description is not correct?

Okay QC: any issues with changing Range and AoE to realign with PnP values?

Additionally, is there any PnP reference that states Confusion or Word of Choas is a type of magic that effects all in Range?

I've always gone by a literal interpretation of Enchantment spells: "Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior."

And perhaps the spell Chaos was created based off of Word of Chaos, which while Evocation, clearly describes it as a burst centered on the Caster, and no Caster would use a spell the is centered on them, that ALSO requires a Save BY the caster!

[dedude]

What description is not correct?

Range is already medium, the same as the PnP version. Medium just got redefined to 20 feet to fit nwn. AoE is 15 feet, as is the PnP version. Afaik Chaos is not a PnP spell, but a BG homemade spell based on Confusion, which is a ranged burst.

[Steve]

PnP says Confusion is 100 feet, plus 10 per level. Contrast that to 15 feet Effect, the distance between is at min 85 feet.

In NWN, you say, the range is 20 ft and effect is 15. That's only 5 feet!

BGTSCC Chaos spell has a description of Range Medium, Effect Large. Doesn't that contradict what you're saying? Is 15 feet AoE described as Large?

[Steve]

Medium Range is 20 meters (in feet is around 65 feet).

Long Range is 40 meters (in feet around 131 feet).

Do these stats still hold true?

Area of Effect, Medium is 10 feet.
Area of Effect, Large is 15 feet.

So using these numbers, the current application of Confusion and Chaos does provide a 50 feet at maximum range distance, to prevent the spell from affecting the caster. The lingering question here is, if you cast Confusion/Chaos on a mob at max range, will it turn Hostile and towards you to within the 15 feet AoE by the time the spell is cast and applies—that would suck, and we know there are plenty of mobs that run supernaturally fast.

That said, I've been trying to do due diligence to see how Enchantment spells may also effect the Caster, and so far, I cannot find any statement that would support that Enchantment is not directed at target (or target group), and is not a spell like Evocation or Conjuration, which makes what I would call a "third party" creation of Magic, and yes, that WOULD affect the caster.

I ask you to read this good read on Enchantment spells for 3.5 edition by WotC.

Note, spells from the school of Enchantment area about Charm or Compulsion. Confusion and Chaos are Compulsion sub-school spells, where we take this into account:

Compulsions

Most compulsion spells literally force the subject to act in some manner, or not act at all. Many compulsions simply make their subjects feel particularly good (or bad) and provide bonuses (or penalties) when the subjects take certain actions. The bless, good hope, bane, and crushing despair spells are examples of the latter type of spell.

Many compulsions grant the caster some degree of control over the subject, however, and require the same careful handling as charm spells

How can a Caster direct or compulsory manipulate a subject, if they to are...compulsed?!? I know that is not a word, but hey. Its as if you can charm yourself!! LOL.

I really don't think that is how it is supposed to work.

Can I get a witness? Or, someone with the 411 on why Enchantments can "backfire" on the Caster, in this self-control way?

[Face]

A fire ball burns you aswel if you cast it on your self.

[Pimple]

I wonder if Mastery of Shaping affects this?

Edit: Nope. Worst feat ever.

[Steve]

A fire ball burns you aswel if you cast it on your self.

Very true. But a fireball is a physical manifestation from out the power of the Weave, while Enchantment(s) are a magic that binds between caster and subject. I'm open to be shown where Enchantment spells exist as physical manifestations or "forces" with a body that would "envelop" the caster, once cast.

[chad878262]

Is there a reason you don't have lesser mind blank up?

I don't see any issue with increasing range a bit, but wouldn't want to use pnp as it would be too much. However, we really need to fix other functionality before worrying over ease of use changes IMO.

[Steve]

Is there a reason you don't have lesser mind blank up?

Cleric with Chaos Domain. While a viable mechanical solution, for me, it doesn't answer the general concept of the Enchantment School of Magic, and whether that should effect the Caster.

Is it also the case, on BGTSCC +/- NWN2, that spells like Hold Person, Mass also effect the Caster? With the dangerous ability to actually dominate yourself?!!? lol. Try and RP outta that one!

[Valefort]

Consider it a burst of confusion, everything in that area has its mind messed up, it's not something consciouly controlled by the wizard throughout the spell like a domination spell, it's fire and forget.