Combat-esque rogue

[scarecr0w]

So I've just recently came back to the server, last time I played before game spy was still a thing. Anyway, most of the builds I've looked up were on wiki sites, which usually they only show broken builds. Now that said, I'm curious how consistent PVP is on the server, and if its better or not to go with a pvp or pve build for a rogue. I guess I should start with the idea I have in mind for the character. A moon elf rogue that duel wields, can handle a bit of hit outside of HiPS, but can fall back onto kiting and doing good damage with HiPS tactic. So far I had a R16/A9/WD5 but at the last five levels I was wondering despite the bonus three feats if it was worth taking five into whirling dervish, or is it just there for options of filler for extra SA damage if I got all the feats is staples for rogues like epic dodge, cripple, epic precision. Or is it better to get a fight class or something in that regard. Any advice, or build ideas appreciated! Thanks! ^_^

[Sun Wukong]

If you want to be a PvP-er, go play an arcanist... Or perhaps some critical hit heavy melee monstrocity and hope that you are the one left standing after the first round...

Sneaks are... well... squishy and the most item dependant build you can go for on this server.

Which doesn't mean that sneaks cannot work, it is just that they take more effort than most classes.

[scarecr0w]

Yeah, I had actually played a fighter/barb/wpm/fb build that.. Well it was stupid. It took the OC, and Mask campaign and turned it into toilet paper. Was critting for 200s+ with cleave, and falchion as a focus. It was gross. But getting back onto topic. I had decided to mess around with the nwn2db just to kind of experiment.

I did download the JEGs training module but it had a problem with missing a lot of the SAs maybe getting two/three out of four. Trying to figure out how to resolve that little problem. xD I hope you don't mind me linking the build, see if you had any pointers! I don't mind it taking a bit more effort, simply because I've always enjoyed the rogue/fighter archetype in an RP.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?275167

[metaquad4]

Epic Dodge is a bit overrated, can easily be substituted with a bit of skill and items, and it limits your build. Plus, it only dodges 1 attack per round (even if you are being attacked by multiple opponents). Imo, I'd echew it.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?272832

This is probably my (personal) favorite rogue build. It gets good AB, camouflage (running in HiPs while outdoors), 15d6 sneak attack, all the usual goodies (expose weakness/PTWF/Epic Precision), the ability to track with swift tracking (good for PvE), faster movement speed due to bodyguard (neverwinter nine), and slightly higher AB than your average rogue due to wilderness stalker and bodyguard being H. BAB classes. Plus, the assassin spells are pretty good as well (you can be dispelled easily, but you can HiPs to avoid dispels).

http://nwn2db.com/build/?262307

Phantom is another approach. You can instantly enter ethereal for 2 uses at level 20 phantom, or enter ethereal with a several second delay at 10 phantom. In addition, you get permanent true seeing. Phantom allows you to "dance" between HiPs and ethereal, effectively becoming nearly untouchable unless AoEs are in play. Of course, you can only sustain this for a few rounds until you run out of ethereal uses (if you are in real danger, you want to use the 2 use ethereal with no delay), so its best to use it only when you need to. Of course, like the above build, you get assassin spells on this one too.

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As mentioned above, however, sneaks are VERY item intensive. In order to not be seen, you need to spend (almost literally) top dollar on items. However, unlike in the before-days, you can get items from a merchant (instead of trying to enter into the very hostile trade-only economy of old). So, you'll be able to grind up gold for the appropriate items. It helps to make friends with a merchant character as well, since most of them have appraise (which helps to lower prices at NPCs). So, you WILL need to put in a bit of effort getting UMD items and stealth items from the most expensive merchants (I spent a little under a million with a full appraise character buying stuff for me). But as you level, so long as you keep looting, you should be able to make a fair bit of gold. It'll also take effort of the "learn to play" variety. Rogues are like martial wizards, they take quite a bit of learning to get them right. Once you have them right, and you have the right items/build, you'll be a powerhouse. There is a high skill ceiling for sneak attackers in general, but it does take items and time to reach it.

One thing, though:
Some of the pieces of the best stealth gear do have feats on them. A couple you might take are "stealthy", "dash", and "improved critical: kukri". Unless you are taking guild thief (which needs stealthy), don't take any of these feats (as you get them on items). That is thinking quite far ahead, but its well worth it to think farther ahead.

[scarecr0w]

Thanks for the advice! I've looked through a lot of the prior posts for rogues on the site and a lot were leaning towards epic dodge being a thing. But I can see its use being diminished if what you said is the case. That said, between the two builds you posted I'm more inclined to try the one with the bodyguard, and wilderness stalker.

That said I might move the strength, drop it to 10, and move it over to constitution to give the toon a little more meat. I was wondering actually if Kurki were in fact worth it, because despite the critical damage when I tried the set up in JEG, it seems to really only crit from 40-50 damage.. Which wasn't that different from a shortsword, or daggers. Out of the three is the dagger the best? Short sword???

On that note too, is any of the first ability racials really worth it for rogues? The only one that seems decent is the luck of heroes for the 1 ac and 1 in all saves to kind of soften the blow on the fort, and will or is it just a feat waste?

[metaquad4]

Dagger and Shortsword is generally the best. Dagger has more variety, though. Crits don't really matter, sneak attack damage isn't multiplied. Dagger has +3 EB with +3 Hide/+3 MS, and shortswords can have the same stats. But, there are more kinds of daggers which makes daggers more valuable.

AC isn't as important, and it won't be too high anyway with sneak gear. Think of your hide/ms as your AC for a sneaker.