Improving the current invocations
Moderators: Moderator, Developer, DM
- metaquad4
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:51 pm
Improving the current invocations
Right now, warlock invocation choices are, for the most part, no-brainers. There aren't many real useful ones. So, I suggest we improve the current ones to make the choice between warlock invocations at-least somewhat challenging:
Hideous Blow:
Make this renew every new round, and every 2 attacks. What this will mean, is that the first attack of a round will have a blast attached to it. Then the third attack in a round will have a blast attached to it. Then the fifth attack in a round will have a blast attached to it. Then, the process will begin again in the following round. In addition, make it give +2 AB. The warlock will get a small boost in AB to help with hitting, and can potentially get 3 blasts in a round, to compensate for the fact that they have to hit with an actual melee attack. Warlocks could go fighter, as they have in the past, but dispels and SR will make this route more painful.
To recap, the attacks in a round would go like this:
1st Attack (Blast), 2nd Attack (No Blast), 3rd Attack (Blast), 4th Attack (No Blast), 5th Attack (Blast), 6th Attack (No Blast), 7th Attack (Blast). If all 7 attacks are available and they all hit, the warlock can get off 4 blasts/round, due to haste's attack.
Frightful Blast
Remove the HD requirement, and make this a fear effect (lasts 1 round/warlock caster level) upon a failed will save.
Beguiling Influence
Make this +CHA mod to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Devil's Sight
Make this +CHA mod to Spot and Search, as well as Dark Vision for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
See the Unseen
Make this Dark Vision, See Invisibility, and Detect Spirits for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Otherworldly Whispers
Make this +CHA mod to Lore (All), Craft (All), Sense Motive, and Spellcraft for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Charm
At CL 21 Warlock, make this a dominate effect.
Curse of Despair
Make this a large AoE, and make it apply 6 damage to ability scores on a failed save.
Dread Seizure
Make this a large AoE, and make it still apply the movement speed loss on a successful save.
The Dead Walk
Make this summon up to 2 undead at warlock CL 10 and up to 3 undead at warlock CL 22. (As with animate dead, with a lower maximum.)
Voracious Dispelling
Make this the equivalent of a greater dispel, like Devour Magic. Make its damage uncapped and make it CL*1.5 + CHA mod.
Brimstone Blast
Make it continue even if a reflex save is made, further reflex saves being rolled until it is done. Increase its DoT damage to 4d6.
Eldritch Cone
Overhaul eldrich cone's functionality.
Eldrich Infuse:
The caster makes a melee touch attack against the target. If they succeed, then the target is effected by their eldrich blast, and anyone within a "medium" AoE must roll a reflex save or also be effected.
Hindering Blast
The least invocations already have a slowing blast. Overhaul this one:
Sonic Blast:
The damage type is changed to sonic, and the enemy must roll a fortitude save or become deafened for 2 rounds.
Tenacious Plague
Change to act as creeping doom does, but with 3x CHA instead of 2x WIS as the determiner of its AB.
Devour Magic
Make this heal for 2*Caster Level and grant Caster Level+CHA mod in temporary hit points upon successfully dispelling magic.
Eldritch Doom
Change to be a "large" AoE instead of a "medium" one.
Utterdark Blast
Make this spell targettable on allies (to heal undead minions). Make the negative levels stack.
Word of Changing
Change to Baleful Polymorph's functionality.
Hellspawned Grace
Merge Word of Changing's old functionality into it and add new forms, appropriate for multiple types of pacts.
Undead Baneful Blast
Make it deal 50% more damage against undead (instead of adding 2d6 extra damage) and make it apply consecrate's effect for 2 rounds to the nearby area.
Frightful Presence
Make it a "medium" AoE aura, which causes any enemies to go near you to take -2 to saves and -2 AB. A failed will save doubles these effects.
Instill Vulnerability
Make it an AoE, and make it cause 25% vulnerability if they succeed the save.
Caustic Web
Enemies who fail a fortitude save also take 2 STR damage per round while in the web.
Planar Ally
Introduce it as a 4th tier invocation.
Hideous Blow:
Make this renew every new round, and every 2 attacks. What this will mean, is that the first attack of a round will have a blast attached to it. Then the third attack in a round will have a blast attached to it. Then the fifth attack in a round will have a blast attached to it. Then, the process will begin again in the following round. In addition, make it give +2 AB. The warlock will get a small boost in AB to help with hitting, and can potentially get 3 blasts in a round, to compensate for the fact that they have to hit with an actual melee attack. Warlocks could go fighter, as they have in the past, but dispels and SR will make this route more painful.
To recap, the attacks in a round would go like this:
1st Attack (Blast), 2nd Attack (No Blast), 3rd Attack (Blast), 4th Attack (No Blast), 5th Attack (Blast), 6th Attack (No Blast), 7th Attack (Blast). If all 7 attacks are available and they all hit, the warlock can get off 4 blasts/round, due to haste's attack.
Frightful Blast
Remove the HD requirement, and make this a fear effect (lasts 1 round/warlock caster level) upon a failed will save.
Beguiling Influence
Make this +CHA mod to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Devil's Sight
Make this +CHA mod to Spot and Search, as well as Dark Vision for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
See the Unseen
Make this Dark Vision, See Invisibility, and Detect Spirits for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Otherworldly Whispers
Make this +CHA mod to Lore (All), Craft (All), Sense Motive, and Spellcraft for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Charm
At CL 21 Warlock, make this a dominate effect.
Curse of Despair
Make this a large AoE, and make it apply 6 damage to ability scores on a failed save.
Dread Seizure
Make this a large AoE, and make it still apply the movement speed loss on a successful save.
The Dead Walk
Make this summon up to 2 undead at warlock CL 10 and up to 3 undead at warlock CL 22. (As with animate dead, with a lower maximum.)
Voracious Dispelling
Make this the equivalent of a greater dispel, like Devour Magic. Make its damage uncapped and make it CL*1.5 + CHA mod.
Brimstone Blast
Make it continue even if a reflex save is made, further reflex saves being rolled until it is done. Increase its DoT damage to 4d6.
Eldritch Cone
Overhaul eldrich cone's functionality.
Eldrich Infuse:
The caster makes a melee touch attack against the target. If they succeed, then the target is effected by their eldrich blast, and anyone within a "medium" AoE must roll a reflex save or also be effected.
Hindering Blast
The least invocations already have a slowing blast. Overhaul this one:
Sonic Blast:
The damage type is changed to sonic, and the enemy must roll a fortitude save or become deafened for 2 rounds.
Tenacious Plague
Change to act as creeping doom does, but with 3x CHA instead of 2x WIS as the determiner of its AB.
Devour Magic
Make this heal for 2*Caster Level and grant Caster Level+CHA mod in temporary hit points upon successfully dispelling magic.
Eldritch Doom
Change to be a "large" AoE instead of a "medium" one.
Utterdark Blast
Make this spell targettable on allies (to heal undead minions). Make the negative levels stack.
Word of Changing
Change to Baleful Polymorph's functionality.
Hellspawned Grace
Merge Word of Changing's old functionality into it and add new forms, appropriate for multiple types of pacts.
Undead Baneful Blast
Make it deal 50% more damage against undead (instead of adding 2d6 extra damage) and make it apply consecrate's effect for 2 rounds to the nearby area.
Frightful Presence
Make it a "medium" AoE aura, which causes any enemies to go near you to take -2 to saves and -2 AB. A failed will save doubles these effects.
Instill Vulnerability
Make it an AoE, and make it cause 25% vulnerability if they succeed the save.
Caustic Web
Enemies who fail a fortitude save also take 2 STR damage per round while in the web.
Planar Ally
Introduce it as a 4th tier invocation.
aka aplethoraof (on discord too)
-
Azerkatil
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:39 pm
Re: Improving the current invocations
The only thing i disagree with in this build, is that people will then use Warlock with the hellspawn grace as the Ultimate loot farming Vessal.
- metaquad4
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:51 pm
Re: Improving the current invocations
A) That can be the current case, as with all polymorphs and with the current hellspawned grace. Carrying loot is a valid use of the spell (shapechange to carry a heavier object).
B) That is about all it is good for, and there will be other good invocations to take as well.
Also, packmules are a-coming!
B) That is about all it is good for, and there will be other good invocations to take as well.
Also, packmules are a-coming!
aka aplethoraof (on discord too)
-
chad878262
- QC Coordinator
- Posts: 9332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm
Re: Improving the current invocations
Just looking at Hideous Blow, that would be a serious increase in power. Currently a PTWF DSM/Rogue/SD/Lock has to pick between Hideous blow damage and sneak damage. Going this route, You would just go Wlck14/R3/DSM10/SD3 with PTWF you'd land 5 blasts per round w/ Eldritch Master for basically more damage than a full rogue would get out of stealth. You could frankly drop SD as you don't even need HiPS to land the dice, you'd just get them all the time. Could really just go Wlk16/DS10/BG4 and have 12 APR, 6 hideous blow dice per round. Too much.
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE
Tarent's Wands and Elixirs
A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands
Tarent's Wands and Elixirs
A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands
-
NegInfinity
- Posts: 2449
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
Fear effect is massively overpowered, and DEFINITELY must have HD requirement. Otherwise you'll have level 10 warlocks mop floor with certain level 30 builds.metaquad4 wrote:Right now, warlock invocation choices are, for the most part, no-brainers. There aren't many real useful ones. So, I suggest we improve the current ones to make the choice between warlock invocations at-least somewhat challenging:
Hideous Blow:
Make this renew every new round, and every 2 attacks. What this will mean, is that the first attack of a round will have a blast attached to it. Then the third attack in a round will have a blast attached to it. Then the fifth attack in a round will have a blast attached to it. Then, the process will begin again in the following round. In addition, make it give +2 AB. The warlock will get a small boost in AB to help with hitting, and can potentially get 3 blasts in a round, to compensate for the fact that they have to hit with an actual melee attack. Warlocks could go fighter, as they have in the past, but dispels and SR will make this route more painful.
To recap, the attacks in a round would go like this:
1st Attack (Blast), 2nd Attack (No Blast), 3rd Attack (Blast), 4th Attack (No Blast), 5th Attack (Blast), 6th Attack (No Blast), 7th Attack (Blast). If all 7 attacks are available and they all hit, the warlock can get off 4 blasts/round, due to haste's attack.
Frightful Blast
Remove the HD requirement, and make this a fear effect (lasts 1 round/warlock caster level) upon a failed will save.
Beguiling Influence
Make this +CHA mod to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Devil's Sight
Make this +CHA mod to Spot and Search, as well as Dark Vision for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
See the Unseen
Make this Dark Vision, See Invisibility, and Detect Spirits for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Otherworldly Whispers
Make this +CHA mod to Lore (All), Craft (All), Sense Motive, and Spellcraft for 1 minute/warlock caster level + 1 minute/CHA mod.
Charm
At CL 21 Warlock, make this a dominate effect.
Curse of Despair
Make this a large AoE, and make it apply 6 damage to ability scores on a failed save.
Dread Seizure
Make this a large AoE, and make it still apply the movement speed loss on a successful save.
The Dead Walk
Make this summon up to 2 undead at warlock CL 10 and up to 3 undead at warlock CL 22. (As with animate dead, with a lower maximum.)
Voracious Dispelling
Make this the equivalent of a greater dispel, like Devour Magic. Make its damage uncapped and make it CL*1.5 + CHA mod.
Brimstone Blast
Make it continue even if a reflex save is made, further reflex saves being rolled until it is done. Increase its DoT damage to 4d6.
Eldritch Cone
Overhaul eldrich cone's functionality.
Eldrich Infuse:
The caster makes a melee touch attack against the target. If they succeed, then the target is effected by their eldrich blast, and anyone within a "medium" AoE must roll a reflex save or also be effected.
Hindering Blast
The least invocations already have a slowing blast. Overhaul this one:
Sonic Blast:
The damage type is changed to sonic, and the enemy must roll a fortitude save or become deafened for 2 rounds.
Tenacious Plague
Change to act as creeping doom does, but with 3x CHA instead of 2x WIS as the determiner of its AB.
Devour Magic
Make this heal for 2*Caster Level and grant Caster Level+CHA mod in temporary hit points upon successfully dispelling magic.
Eldritch Doom
Change to be a "large" AoE instead of a "medium" one.
Utterdark Blast
Make this spell targettable on allies (to heal undead minions). Make the negative levels stack.
Word of Changing
Change to Baleful Polymorph's functionality.
Hellspawned Grace
Merge Word of Changing's old functionality into it and add new forms, appropriate for multiple types of pacts.
Undead Baneful Blast
Make it deal 50% more damage against undead (instead of adding 2d6 extra damage) and make it apply consecrate's effect for 2 rounds to the nearby area.
Frightful Presence
Make it a "medium" AoE aura, which causes any enemies to go near you to take -2 to saves and -2 AB. A failed will save doubles these effects.
Instill Vulnerability
Make it an AoE, and make it cause 25% vulnerability if they succeed the save.
Caustic Web
Enemies who fail a fortitude save also take 2 STR damage per round while in the web.
Planar Ally
Introduce it as a 4th tier invocation.
Existing bonus ability invocations should not add +cha bonus, because that will make them useless non non-charisma warlock.
See the Unseen: Definitely a no. Those are supposed to be 24 hours.
Dominate: Definitely a no.
Hideous Blow: Rather than trying to buff hidesous blow, attempt to introduce elditch glaive. Attempts to introduce eldritch glaive usually cause eldritch horror among other staff, though, because you can easily end up dealing 100d6*1.5 damage per round with it.
Hellspawned Grace: Definitely a no. There's a Shrouding Transformation invocation that allows warlocks to turn into creatures of their size, introduce that instead.
Planar Ally: Warlocks are not summoners. They can only draw forth swarms and raise undead. They can't summon anything on their own. Summon baatezu is a homebrewed junk by obsidian.
To summarize:
I would not want to see good portion that on on the server. Some of the suggestions have massive balance issues (like fear effect being guaranteed death), other gimp existing uses (replacing +6 with +CHA) and break existing strategies. Most of those have no good reason behind them and seem to be aimed at getting more mechanical power and without a good reason too.
----
Here's full list of invocations warlocks actually have.
Warlock Invocations
LEAST INVOCATIONSLESSER INVOCATIONS
- Artificer's Assistant: Least, 2nd; Conjures an invisible assistant that grants +6 to all Craft checks for 24 hours.
- Baleful Utterance: Least, 2nd, Sonic; Object/area affected by Shatter, creature holding/wearing destroyed target makes Fort save or be dazed for 1 round and deafened for 1 minute.
- Beguiling Influence: Least, 2nd; +6 Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy for 24 hours.
- Breath of the Night: Least, 1st; Create a Fog Cloud as the spell.
- Dark One’s Own Luck: Least, 2nd; Luck bonus = Cha to any one save for 24 hours. Does not apply to more than one save at a time, can not be more than Warlock level.
- Darkness: Least, 2nd; Use Darkness as the spell.
- Devil’s Sight: Least, 2nd; See normally in darkness and magical darkness out to 30 feet.
- Earthen Grasp: Least, 2nd; Conjure a earthen hand at close range for 2 rounds/level on earth, mud, grass, or sand; Hand is equal to Med creature with BAB = CL, Str = 14 +2/3xCL. Arm doesn't move from its space, but it can grapple a foe in its space or any adjacent space. If no foes are in reach, it attacks a target at random in range, if any. Each round the hand pins a target, it deals 1d6 to target. Arm has AC 14, hardness 4, and 3HP/CL
- Eldritch Spear: Least, 2nd, Blast Shape; Eldritch Blast gains a range of 250 feet with no increment.
- Entropic Warding: Least, 2nd; Gain 20% miss chance (not concealment), leave no visible or aromatic trail.
- Frightful Blast: Least, 2nd, Blast essence, Mind-Affecting; Struck creatures make Will save or be shaken for 1 minute.
- Hideous Blow: Least, 1st, Blast shape; Channel eldritch blast into single melee attack as a standard action. Does not provoke attacks, and deals damage on its own independent of the weapon being used to attack.
- Leaps and Bounds: Least, 2nd; Gain +6 to Jump, Balance, and Tumble for 24 hours.
Miasmic Cloud: Least, 1st; Creates 10 foot radius dense fog, grants concealment, other creatures that enter make Fort save or be fatigued for 1 round after they leave the fog. Fog is dispersed as Fog Cloud and lasts 1 minute.- See the Unseen: Least, 2nd; See Invisibility and Darkvision for 24 hours.
- Sickening Blast: Least, 2nd, Blast essence; Struck creatures make Fort save or be sickened for 1 minute.
- Spiderwalk: Least, 2nd; Spider Climb for 24 hours and unaffected by mundane or magical webs.
- Summon Swarm: Least, 2nd; Summon Swarm for only as long as you concentrate.
- All-Seeing Eyes: Least, 2nd; Comprehend Languages for written materials only and +6 on Spot and Search for 24 hours.
- Call of the Beast: Least, 2nd; Wild Empathy as a druid of your level and Speak with Animals for 24 hours.
- Hammer Blast: Least, 2nd, Blast essence; Eldritch Blast deals full damage to objects instead of half.
- Otherworldly Whispers: Least, 2nd; Gain +6 to Knowledge regarding Arcana, Religion, and The Planes for 24 hours.
- Serpent's Tongue: Least, 2nd; Gain Scent and +5 to saves against poison for 24 hours.
- Soulreaving Aura: Least, 2nd; 10 foot radius emanation centered on you instantly deals 1 damage to every creature with 0 or fewer HP, and if any creature is slain by this effect, you gain temporary HP equal to its HD (max 10) for 1 round.
- Swimming the Styx: Least, 2nd; Gain aquatic subtype, swim speed equal to base land speed, and the ability to breathe water and air for 24 hours.
- Hideous Shot: Least, 1st, Blast Shape; Channel eldritch blast into projectile or thrown object as a part of a single ranged attack.
- Dark Arcana: Least, 1st; +6 to Spellcraft and Use Magic Device for 24 hours.
- Cloak of Shadows: Least, 1st; +6 to Hide, Sleight of Hand, and Move Silently for 24 hours.
- Shrouding Transformation: Least, 2nd; Alter Self on self for 24 hours, but can not be a different size category than your normal size.
GREATER INVOCATIONS
- Beshadowed Blast: Lesser, 4th, Blast essence; Living creature struck makes Fort or blinded for 1 round.
- Brimstone Blast: Lesser, 3rd, Blast essence; Any creature struck makes Reflex save or catches fire, taking 2d6 additional fire damage per round until extinguished by full round action or 1 round/5xCL
- Charm: Lesser, 4th, Mind-Affecting; Charm Monster within 60 feet that speaks your language, only one charmed creature at a time.
- Curse of Despair: Lesser, 4th; Deliver touch attack to Bestow Curse, target gains -1 to attack for 1 minute even if it succeeds on the save.
- The Dead Walk: Lesser, 4th; Animate Dead as spell, lasts only 1 minute per CL unless you include normal material component.
- Eldritch Chain: Lesser, 4th, Blast Shape; Eldritch blast strikes 1 extra target per four levels within 30 feet of the previous target.
- Fell Flight: Lesser, 3rd; Gain fly speed equal to land speed with Good maneuverability for 24 hours.
- Flee the Scene: Lesser, 4th; Dimension Door as the spell and leave behind Fog Cloud for 1 round.
- Hellrime Blast: Lesser, 4th, Blast essence; Blast deals Cold damage, and any creature struck makes Fort save or takes -4 to Dex for 10 minutes. Dex debuff does not stack from multiple hellrime blasts.
- Hungry Darkness: Lesser, 3rd; Create stationary Darkness effect filled with swarms of bats, attacking all creatures within except you for 1d6 damage as a Swarm, lasts with concentration + 2 rounds. If the bat swarm is destroyed, Hungry Darkness ends.
- Stony Grasp: Lesser, 3rd; As Earthen Grasp, but any natural surface, AC 18, hardness 8, and 4 HP/CL.
- Voidsense: Lesser, 4th; Gain blindsense 30 ft. for 24 hours.
- Voracious Dispelling: Lesser, 4th; Dispel Magic and creatures with active spell effects dispelled by this take 1 damage for each level of spell effect dispelled.
- Walk Unseen: Lesser, 2nd; Invisibility on self for 24 hours.
- Wall of Gloom: Lesser, 2nd, Mind-Affecting; Create wall of gloom up to 40 feet long or 15 foot radius, 20 feet high, creatures adjacent to the wall have concealment from other side, creatures further have total concealment. Creatures with 6 or less HD must make a Will save or be halted at its edge. Creatures may attempt to pass through any number of times, but each failure imposes a cumulative -1 on the Will save.
- Baneful Blast: Lesser, 3rd, Blast essence; When gained, pick a creature type as a Ranger's favored enemy - this blast deals an additional 2d6 damage to that creature type. This invocation can be taken multiple times for separate creature types, and it can not be changed once selected unless retrained.
- Cold Comfort: Lesser, 2nd; Endure Elements on yourself and allies within 30 feet for 24 hours.
- Crawling Eye: Lesser, 3rd; Detach one of your eyes to move on its own with a move and climb speed of 20 feet. Directing the eye requires a move action. Its Climb modifier is equal to 8+CL, and its Hide and Move Silently are equal to your CL. It is considered a Fine creature with 2 HP and AC of 20. When you use this invocation, your HP are reduced by 2 for the duration of this effect. For all other purposes, its stats are equal to yours. You can't cast spells or invocations through the eye, but any effects that affect your vision function through the eye as though it was still attached. If it is destroyed, you are dazzled for 1d4 rounds while the eye regrows, and you regain the 2 HP at the end of this time. You may only have one Crawling eye at a time.
- Disembodied Hand: Lesser, 4th; Detach one of your hands to float in the air. You may still use it as though it were still attached in every way, but it still requires that you expend actions to use it accordingly, and any touch attack you deliver with it must be cast before you use this invocation. The hand can move through the air at 30 feet. When you use this invocation, your HP are reduced by 5 while it is in effect, and the hand is considered a Diminutive creature with AC 20 and HP 5. Its Hide and Move silently modifiers are equal to your CL, and its other statistics are equal to yours. If it is destroyed, it regrows in 1d4 rounds at which time you regain the 5 HP lost. You may only have one Disembodied hand at a time.
Mask of Flesh: Lesser, 3rd; Take on the physical form of a living creature of your own size with a touch attack. If you desire, you may impose a 1d6 Cha penalty to the target, but the Charisma can't be lower than 1. Will save negates both effects, and a creature that saved can not be affected for another 24 hours. Both effects last for 1 hour per CL; If you dismiss the invocation, both effects end.- Relentless Dispelling: Lesser, 4th; Targeted Dispel Magic and a second targeted Dispel Magic on the same target at the start of your turn with no action required on your part.
- Witchwood Step: Lesser, 3rd; Walk over water, through rubble or undergrowth at full speed, and immunity to Entanglement for 24 hours.
- Eldritch Ward: Lesser, 4th; Surrounded by swirling eldritch energies that provide a deflection AC bonus equal to your Eldritch Blast dice as well as granting a resistance bonus to saves against spells equal to your Eldritch Blast dice for one minute. While Eldritch Ward is active, the warlock may not use his Eldritch Blast ability. The caster may dismiss this invocation effect as a standard action.
- Vile Darkness: Lesser, 3rd; Use Blacklight as the spell.
- Warlock's Lock: Lesser, 3rd; As Arcane Lock, but warded object glows faintly (Spot/Search DC 15), and causes 1d4 magic damage per 2 CL (Reflex Half) to creatures touching the warded object other than the caster. Only one such effect can be active at a time, new castings negate former ones. Lasts 1 hr/CL and is not discharged when creatures take damage from this effect.
DARK INVOCATIONS
- Bewitching Blast: Greater, 4th, Blast essence, Mind-Affecting; Any creature struck makes Will save or confused for 1 round.
- Chilling Tentacles: Greater, 5th; Black Tentacles with additional 2d6 cold damage in the spell's area.
- Devour Magic: Greater, 6th; Greater Dispel Magic with touch, gain temp HP = 5 per level of spell dispelled. These temp HP fade after 1 minute and do not stack with other temp HP. Can not use on own invocations.
- Eldritch Cone: Greater, 5th, Blast Shape; Eldritch blast takes the shape of a 30 foot cone, affecting all creatures within, but they may make a Reflex for half.
- Enervating Shadow: Greater, 5th; Gain total concealment in dark or shadowy places for 5 rounds, living creatures adjacent must make Fort at start of their turn or take -4 to Strength for 5 rounds. Affected creatures can not be affected for another 24 hours.
- Noxious Blast: Greater, 6th, Blast essence; Struck creatures make Fort save or be nauseated for 1 minute.
- Repelling Blast: Greater, 6th, Blast essence; Struck creatures of Medium or smaller make Reflex save or be hurled 1d6x5 feet away from you and knocked prone. If the creature strikes a wall within this distance, they take 1d6 damage for each 10 feet flung in this manner.
- Tenacious Plague: Greater, 6th; Insect Plague with Cha bonus added to Fort DC for swarm's distraction. Swarm summoned in this manner overcomes magic damage reduction.
- Vitriolic Blast: Greater, 6th, Blast essence; Eldritch blast deals damage with conjured acid, ignoring spell resistance. Struck creatures take an additional 2d6 points of acid damage each round after the initial attack for 1 round/5xCL.
- Wall of Perilous Flame: Greater, 5th; Wall of Fire but half of the damage is magic damage instead of fire damage. Creatures reduced to 0 or fewer HP by this invocation are affected by a Destruction spell effect.
- Warlock’s Call: Greater, 5th; Sending, but a creature unwilling to reply can attempt a Will save to deal 1d10 points of damage back to you.
- Caustic Mire: Greater, 4th; Cover a 20 foot radius spread within Medium range with acidic slime for 1 round per level that slows movement to half speed and causes creatures entering to take 1d6 acid damage for each space entered and 1d6 acid damage if they end their turn in a space affected by this. Effects that deal fire damage to creatures within this spell's effect deal and additional 1 fire damage per die. If you cast a second one, the previous ends.
- Hellspawned Grace: Greater, 6th; Gain the form of a Hellcat for 1 round per 2 CL. If reduced to 0 or fewer HP in Hellcat form, you can't use this invocation again for 1 hour.
- Hindering Blast: Greater, 4th, Blast essence; Living creatures struck make Will save or be Slowed for 1 round.
- Nightmares Made Real: Greater, 5th; Make 5 10 foot cubes + 1 10 foot cube per CL at Close range appear nightmarish for 1 round per level, entangling and dealing 1d6 damage on your turn to those who fail Will saves within. Grants concealment to creatures adjacent and total concealment to creatures beyond regardless of Will save, and you may make hide checks even while being observed in this area, but others may not.
- Painful Slumber of Ages: Greater, 6th, Mind-affecting; Cause one living creature at close range to enter an indefinite state of sleep if they fail the Will save. Normal stimuli is insufficient to wake them, but any damage received rouses them instantly, but they also take damage equal to your CL when this happens. They also receive an additional save every 24 hours to wake from their slumber for no damage. The target does not need to eat or drink under the effect of this.
- Eldritch Beam: Greater, 5th, Blast Shape; Eldritch blast channeled into a 5ft. x 60ft. line, affecting all creatures in its path (Reflex for half).
- Dark Discorporation: Dark, 8th; Become 8 squares of Diminutive shadow bats for 24 hours; Str = 1, Dex +6; Lose armor and natural armor bonuses to AC, +4 size and + Cha to AC; Diminutive size swarm and Fly 40ft. (Perfect); Swarm subtype traits; Swarm Attack for 4d6 to any creature in your space at end of turn as magic weapon of your alignment; Distraction on any living creature vulnerable to your swarm attack starting turn in your space makes Fort save or be nauseated for 1 round and spellcasting in your space requires Concentration; All possessions are nonfunctional and absorbed into your new form.
- Dark Foresight: Dark, 8th; Foresight and communicate with target telepathically within 100 feet and line of sight.
- Eldritch Doom: Dark, 8th, Blast shape; Eldritch Blast becomes 20 foot burst centered on you, affects designated targets, targets may Reflex for half.
- Path of Shadow: Dark, 6th; Shadow Walk as the spell, plus regain hitpoints as if resting a full day for each hour shadow walking.
- Retributive Invisibility: Dark, 6th; Greater Invisibility on self and deals 4d6 sonic damage in 20 foot radius burst if dispelled and stuns creatures damaged in this way if they fail a Fort save.
- Utterdark Blast: Dark, 8th, Blast essence; Eldritch blast deals negative energy damage, healing undead struck. Living creatures struck make Fort save or gain 2 negative levels.
- Word of Changing: Dark, 5th; Baleful Polymorph for 24 hours, at which point the creature makes a second Will save at the original bonus or remains in the new form permanently until restored by other means.
- Binding Blast: Dark, 7th, Blast essence, Mind-affecting; Struck creature makes Will save or be stunned for 1 round.
- Caster's Lament: Dark, 8th; Break Enchantment on touch, but can only attempt to affect any given effect once in a 24 hour period. Can also use this to counterspell 7th level or lower spells as if using Greater Dispel Magic.
- Steal Summoning: Dark, 6th; Cast as an immediate action to steal control of a summoned creature as soon as it is summoned with a successful Caster Level check (DC 11 + CL of summoner) for as long as you concentrate plus 1 round up to 1 round per level + 1
- Nemni
- Retired Staff
- Posts: 965
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
I think many of these suggestions are quite overpowered. But I agree with the overall idea of adjusting the worst and least used invocations so that warlocks get more diversity.
That is a good idea for example.Charm
At CL 21 Warlock, make this a dominate effect.
- metaquad4
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:51 pm
Re: Improving the current invocations
NegInfinity, I don't see any of those invocations in nwn2 or our server. If you want to suggest new invocations, there is already a post for that. Please stay on topic, thanks! Also, if you don't like homebrew stuff, stick to PnP (with a group that doesn't like creating anything new and can only use what is already created) and not a server hosted on a game based on PnP, which is also based on a game that was based on PnP.
Warlocks already have a stunning and a daze effect. Fear is in line with these two, even a little weaker (mobs running away can do harm if you draw more aggro from others).
Perhaps the stronger of +4/+6 (for the skill bonuses) or +CHA. Best of both worlds, there.
A name change for hellspawned grace can be arranged, but it doesn't seem worth the effort.
Giving warlocks planar ally isn't too OP, and it is rather fitting for their flavor. Especially with that many warlock levels, they are in deep with their chosen entity at that point.
Eldrich Glaive could be added, with a reflex save (PoS did this to some success). A max of two attacks, and a reflex save for half. But, that is a story for another thread!
Charm is pretty worthless (you can get damage+CC equal or better to charm with warlock blasts in an AoE). What other effect would be better, if dominate is too OP?
Warlocks already have a stunning and a daze effect. Fear is in line with these two, even a little weaker (mobs running away can do harm if you draw more aggro from others).
Perhaps the stronger of +4/+6 (for the skill bonuses) or +CHA. Best of both worlds, there.
A name change for hellspawned grace can be arranged, but it doesn't seem worth the effort.
Giving warlocks planar ally isn't too OP, and it is rather fitting for their flavor. Especially with that many warlock levels, they are in deep with their chosen entity at that point.
Eldrich Glaive could be added, with a reflex save (PoS did this to some success). A max of two attacks, and a reflex save for half. But, that is a story for another thread!
Charm is pretty worthless (you can get damage+CC equal or better to charm with warlock blasts in an AoE). What other effect would be better, if dominate is too OP?
aka aplethoraof (on discord too)
-
NegInfinity
- Posts: 2449
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
Fear is incredibly overpowered when used against players. Pure rogue or pure fighter will have will save between 6 or 9, meaning a level one warlock will have a chance of scaring off a level 30 player. At which point idiotic neverwinter 2 fear system will kick in, and the player will start running around the map randomly, gathering mobs. If this is used in the right location, this can be easily used to fugue people via pvp (because a sneak will have bad AC, so getting them under effect of Fear will get them killed)metaquad4 wrote: Warlocks already have a stunning and a daze effect. Fear is in line with these two, even a little weaker (mobs running away can do harm if you draw more aggro from others).
A similar problem exists with existing implementation of animal roar, which makes animals cast fear spell (DC vs Will Save) instead of using intimidate check (DC vs HD + Will Save modifiers vs fear), which results in ridiculous situation when a single CR5 wolf can send Level 30 fighter running away. This has been reported and hasn't been dealt with.
So, basically, by giving it a fear effect you're giving a powerful griefing tool at level 1. Original invocation had HD restriction exactly for this purpose. Also, frightful blast is usually something you use for the first 6 levels and then swap away. And not something you keep forever. Same thing applies to eldritch cone, by the way - usually by level 20 it'll be swapped with eldrtich doom, if the warlock is a high Charisma one. And that is fine.
Regarding Charm spell...
I checked the wiki, and it would seem the difference is that charmed enemy won't follow you.
I think that for its power level (lesser invocation) charm is fine as is, but you could consider introducing something similar to sigil's Baleful Geas:
http://sigil-nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Baleful_Geas
Sigil also had a system where some spells had halved duration when used against players. So something like that could perhaps work.
Having a more powerful version at a higher level slot would be in line with progression of other charm/dominate effects (where dominate monster gets highest level spell)
in general, I think that proposed invocations are fine for their power level, but if you want a powerful version of them, it would work better as a higher level invocation instead which has limits removed instead of tweaking the existing invocations.
IIRC warlocks had relativley poor selection of either Greater or Dark Invocations, so if someone made a powerful version and placed it THERE, it would make sense.
Basically... the effects you're proposing seems to be too strong for invocation power level, and if you want to uncap them, they would make more sense as an invocation at higher power level instead.
----
Also, I do not recommend to use "there's already similar effect in other invocations, overhaul this one" kind of logic.
Most of the useful effects used by warlocks are centered in lesser and least invocations, and you can't pick all of them. In PnP version a warlock could swap away invocations for less powerful ones, so this was not a problem. However, in Nwn2 you can't trade a dark slot for a least slot, so this is actually an issue. So, if you, say, change a spell with an equivalent effect, you'll be probably breaking someone's build. Which is not a very good idea.
- metaquad4
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:51 pm
Re: Improving the current invocations
Bear in mind that, like the stun, the fear (should) would only last 1 round. There would be no "griefing potential" that isn't already there. Also, if players do that kind of thing intentionally, that is already covered by the rules. Really, a none issue.
And that is the danger of building an extremely low will save build. There are ways to compensate (items) or one could raise their willsaves with the right classes (or find ways to avoid such enemies or ambush them).
Cone should really never be used, and rarely is. Chain is way better, as enemies don't line up very well for a cone AoE.
Baleful Geas is an ok one as well.
Warlocks don't have a poor selection of greater or dark invocations. Rather, there are only a handful of really good ones. The least and lesser invocations are filled with less useful ones (with less must-haves than dark or greater). Dark has 3 extremely useful buffs (Dark Foresight, Dark Premonition, Ret. Invis) with one useful for cha-locks (binding blast), Greater has 3 very useful spells (repelling blast, vitrolic blast, devour magic) with one useful for CHA-locks (noxious blast), lesser has one really "must have-y invocation (eldrich chain), and least has 2 (see the unseen, leaps and bounds) as well as one for CHA (Dark One's Own Lock).
And that is the danger of building an extremely low will save build. There are ways to compensate (items) or one could raise their willsaves with the right classes (or find ways to avoid such enemies or ambush them).
Cone should really never be used, and rarely is. Chain is way better, as enemies don't line up very well for a cone AoE.
Baleful Geas is an ok one as well.
Warlocks don't have a poor selection of greater or dark invocations. Rather, there are only a handful of really good ones. The least and lesser invocations are filled with less useful ones (with less must-haves than dark or greater). Dark has 3 extremely useful buffs (Dark Foresight, Dark Premonition, Ret. Invis) with one useful for cha-locks (binding blast), Greater has 3 very useful spells (repelling blast, vitrolic blast, devour magic) with one useful for CHA-locks (noxious blast), lesser has one really "must have-y invocation (eldrich chain), and least has 2 (see the unseen, leaps and bounds) as well as one for CHA (Dark One's Own Lock).
aka aplethoraof (on discord too)
-
NegInfinity
- Posts: 2449
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
Player should decide what to use, and not someone else.metaquad4 wrote: Cone should really never be used, and rarely is. Chain is way better, as enemies don't line up very well for a cone AoE.
Chain and spear are for a dex-based blaster warlock. Cone and Doom are for Cha based contrller warlock. Cone useful for situations when you don't have eldritch doom. Also, at the levels when you get the cone, it works very well, because a lot of time will be spent crawling through dungeons. Dungeons tend to have door frames.
- Deathgrowl
- Recognized Donor
- Posts: 6590
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:10 pm
- Location: VIKING NORWAY!
- Contact:
Re: Improving the current invocations
There is a loooot of power boost suggestions here for a class that is already very, very powerful.
Some of these are fine, but the large majority just come off as power creep (and some of them are very clearly PvP power ups, which makes me very wary).
Some of these are fine, but the large majority just come off as power creep (and some of them are very clearly PvP power ups, which makes me very wary).
Laitae Lafreth, became Chosen of Mystra, former Great Reader of Candlekeep
Nëa the Little Shadow
Uranhed Jandinwed, Guide of Candlekeep
Free music:
http://soundcloud.com/progressionmusic/sets/luna
Nëa the Little Shadow
Uranhed Jandinwed, Guide of Candlekeep
Free music:
http://soundcloud.com/progressionmusic/sets/luna
- Argumantive
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 5:30 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
I think the whole idea is to make the new or changed invocations powerful, to offer an alternative to the current ones.
A warlock has a -VERY- limited selection of spells. So any of these new invocations, will be replacing a powerful invocation as it is.
Giving more invocations, which will simply not be picked for not being competitive with the current ones, will be redundant and better not waste the time of even being implemented.
A warlock has a -VERY- limited selection of spells. So any of these new invocations, will be replacing a powerful invocation as it is.
Giving more invocations, which will simply not be picked for not being competitive with the current ones, will be redundant and better not waste the time of even being implemented.
Gunthar- main and only.
- wangxiuming
- Posts: 716
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:13 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
I like most of the proposed changes/suggestions, although a few stand out as too powerful for me. Stacking Utterdark blasts, for example, is a frightening proposition even with a warlock's relatively low DCs. The Hideous Blow change is also rather terrifying - to potentially be able to deliver 4 eldritch blasts within a single round? That's potentially upwards of 4-500 damage per round with Eldritch Master.
-
NegInfinity
- Posts: 2449
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:24 am
Re: Improving the current invocations
Speaking of which...
Extra fun if this is applied to Eldritch Doom shape. Extra fun if the eldritch doom is enlarged, as proposed. I think it'll be more powerful than epic spells.
This is a "kill anything" button, because it gives you infinite casts of enervation. Quite a lot of enemies are killable by enervation spam, and while normally it requires an expensive wand, in case of this change, the warlock will be nigh unstoppable.metaquad4 wrote:Utterdark Blast
Make this spell targettable on allies (to heal undead minions). Make the negative levels stack.
Extra fun if this is applied to Eldritch Doom shape. Extra fun if the eldritch doom is enlarged, as proposed. I think it'll be more powerful than epic spells.
- metaquad4
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:51 pm
Re: Improving the current invocations
A) 21k is not expensive. You don't need to loot that much to get that amount.
B) It requires a save, unlike the others.
C) It gives 2 negative levels, vs 1d4 or 2d4 (enervate and energy drain respectively)
D) Chain would be better. Eldrich Doom requires an extra save and in most (if not all) mob clusters it would hit the same amount of enemies.
B) It requires a save, unlike the others.
C) It gives 2 negative levels, vs 1d4 or 2d4 (enervate and energy drain respectively)
D) Chain would be better. Eldrich Doom requires an extra save and in most (if not all) mob clusters it would hit the same amount of enemies.
aka aplethoraof (on discord too)