Bard Kit Suggestion - Spellslinger

[Sun Wukong]

Bard Kit - Spellslinger

Lose:

Code: Select all

- Bardic Songs, (You retain access to bardic Inspirations)
- Ability to multiclass into Stormsinger and Dissonant Chord 

Gain:

Code: Select all

- Level 1:  
- Level 2:  Auto Empower Spell I
- Level 3:  
- Level 4:  Auto Empower Spell II
- Level 5:  
- Level 6:  
- Level 7:  Auto Empower Spell III
- Level 8:  Level 1 Bonus Spell Slot
- Level 9:  
- Level 10: Auto Empower Spell IV
- Level 11: Level 2 Bonus Spell Slot
- Level 12: 
- Level 13: Auto Empower Spell V
- Level 14: Level 3 Bonus Spell Slot
- Level 15: 
- Level 16: Auto Empower Spell VI
- Level 17: Level 4 Bonus Spell Slot
- Level 18: 
- Level 19: Level 5 Bonus Spell Slot

- Additional: Access to level 6 spell opens up Archmage PRC as a multiclass option, and Archmage High Arcana spell slot costs spell slots three levels lower than with Wizard/Sorcerer Progression. 

Basically, you couldn't use any songs, thus no Song or Hymn of Requiem or even the bread and butter Curse Song, but on the other hand all your healing and offensive spells would be automatically Empowered. For example you could spend your level six spell slots to cast a "3d6*1.5 + 12d6*1.5" Ice Storm, or perhaps a "24d6*1.5" Greater Shout.


This is just a thought I had, any comments?

[Sun Wukong]

Hmn... I wonder if there is a need to ban 'empower' spell... from this bard. Double Empowered spells could be kind of nasty...


Shout (base spell level 4) double Empowered: 18d6*1.5^2 = 121.5~

Cacophonic Burst (base spell level 5) double Empowered: 21d6*1.5^2 = 165.375~

Greater Shout (base spell level 6) Empowered: 24d6*1.5= 126~

Empowered Polar Ray does 45d6, which is 157.5~ on average...

So suffice to say, there are some issues with double Empowered spells, and probably with empowered and maximised spells...

Thus, the 'Auto Empower Spell' should only have effect on spells that do not have any other metamagic applied to it. Thus you could get Maximise and Empower spell feats, use them, but in case of Empower you would just be using a higher level slot for a lower level slot effect, and with Maximise you would just maximise the Unempowered version of the spell with a higher level spell slot.

[Sun Wukong]

As for motivation for this suggestion...

The 2nd edition bard was explicitly a jack-of-all-trade class, with a limited selection of thief skills (pick pockets, detect noise, climb walls, and read languages) a limited wizard spell progression, access to proficiency in any weapon, and some special bardic music abilities and bardic lore. Beginning at 2nd level, a bard began to gain spells as if a wizard, and like wizards, they had to keep a spellbook and could not cast spells while in armor. They could learn any spell they had access to (as a mage would).

Bards' biggest advantage was their use of the rogue advancement table, which was the fastest in the game. Bards cast spells using their actual class level as their caster level. Since bards were usually higher level than the party's wizard, the spells they could cast were often more powerful than the wizard's. A bard who focussed on spells that improved with caster level (such as Magic Missile and Fireball) was a very potent magical threat. Their ability to use any weapon, combined with rogue attack strength, made them credible second-line offensive threats even without magic, provided they had some form of magical Armor Class-boosting equipment.

So to me... at least, it would make the Bard class more appealing... As it would be less about singing, and more about spell-flinging!

[Babuguuscooties]

So to me... at least, it would make the Bard class more appealing... As it would be less about singing, and more about spell-flinging!

You mean more about melee!

Right now Bards are heavily dependent on spells to buff them up like mirror image and stuff, right?

Why not also consider a Skald kit for bards who want to give up spellcasting in favor of more martial bard songs?

Also, I like your idea! I was just teasing.

[Sun Wukong]

Well, you have your melee bards that uses the songs, and that's about every bard... I have seen on this server... Yes, we have the one and two oddballs, but melee bards are the most common bards...

And I've been recently thinking about creating some kind of DC caster bard that would not use a single song. It would go something like this: Bard 16/Blackguard 4/Arcane Trickster 10, because you have Inspire Jarring for -2 Will Saves, Blackguard Aura for another -2 to saves, you cast Mind Fog and if opponents fail their save they get -10 to their Will Saves, after which you can cast Mass Hold Person to paralyze multiple targets. Thus with potential -14 to their Will saves, you might have some chance to get some of that 6d6 Sneak Attack dice pummeled at the paralyzed enemies.

And you could get thank sneak attack dice on top of your Ice Darts or something... Or maybe on top of that Clap of Thunder reserver feat... I think the reserve feats get arcane trickster sneak attack dice, but I could be wrong.

But yeah... I am not really sure if there is another way to make caster Bard. I could go for Arcane Scholar, but the offensive spell selection is limited, even more than it is for a Sorceror. You just do not have enough spell levels to get all that much out of that PRC...

...

Most people are happy with their melee bards I guess.

[Babuguuscooties]

Yeah, to be honest you're much more knowledgeable about all this than I am.

I was just thinking about a bard build that doesn't have to cast at all. As far as I know the melee bards here are mostly reliant on buffs like displacement and mirror image, right?

A skald would be a bard that has 0 spells in favor of maybe some songs that are more beneficial. Maybe it is redundant though. I believe you if you say so.

Regardless, I was just offering another bard kit option. Yours does seem like its more needed, to be fair.


EDIT: Isn't there another class that gives a negative to saves aura aside from blackguard?

[Sun Wukong]

Warpriest, but it is a divine only PRC. The aura gives -1.

As for non-casting Bard... You can make one actually, you are just slightly more item dependant as you cannot rely on mirrors and displacements to tank things out. Thus what you go for is basically a strength based Bard 26/Fighter 4, and you make use of your Inspirirations and Songs. Curse Song is a powerful debuff, and Hymns and Songs of Requiem are basically 'I WIN' buttons. Just put up that Fullplate, Tower Shield, and you can just tank things out like any other warrior...

[Babuguuscooties]

Warpriest, but it is a divine only PRC. The aura gives -1.

As for non-casting Bard... You can make one actually, you are just slightly more item dependant as you cannot rely on mirrors and displacements to tank things out. Thus what you go for is basically a strength based Bard 26/Fighter 4, and you make use of your Inspirirations and Songs. Curse Song is a powerful debuff, and Hymns and Songs of Requiem are basically 'I WIN' buttons. Just put up that Fullplate, Tower Shield, and you can just tank things out like any other warrior...

Well sure, but that's just purposely not using the spells... And your HP is gonna be worse than most fighters, right?

[Sun Wukong]

Hymn and your inspirations will provide healing, which means that the amount of damage that piles up is lessened. Effectively speaking you will have more hitpoints.

[Babuguuscooties]

Fair enough.

[Sun Wukong]

Any comments?

Bards have a limited number of spell slots, base 4 spells per spell level, + bonus slots from charisma modifier. Therefore, with 30 charisma bard you would get a total of 7 spells slots for both level 1 and 2 spells, and 6 spell slots for the rest. Basically, even with Autotomatic Empower Spell feats a Sorcerer would be the better choice for a blaster master as they get base 6 spells per spell level.