Sneaky Kabonger

[PhantomLamb]

I'd like to build a big ol' brute who can sneak up on baddies and whack em with a big stick. Essentially, a stealther who uses a 2h weapon.

I was considering a Ranger with FPA, perhaps coupling with 5 levels in FB or 10 in Duelist for the spear damage bonus. I think I want to avoid a rogue/SA route if I can. Any thoughts?

[Sun Wukong]

Yeah, you can go for Ranger 25/Frenzied Berserker 5 with a feat spent on Practised Spellcaster (Ranger) for caster level of 29.

The problem with Favored Power Attack is that you would have to pick it up once for every type of Favored Enemy you have...

But perhaps you could consider something like this: http://nwn2db.com/build/?276699

edit: in my opinion you would improve the build by getting Expose Weakness and additional great strength feats instead of Favored Power attack.

But anyhow, the build does get +10 (onehanded) or +15 (twohanded) damage with Power Attack active, and +20 (onehanded) or +30 (twohanded) with Improved Power Active.

With potion of Bull's Strength, you are at 30 Strength, so that is +15 Damage. If you make use of +4 Greatsword, your AB with with the potion should be 44, hence 38 with Improved Power Attack active. Oh yeah, you get +2 AB against your favored enemies with Bane of Enemies, so you will be at AB of 40, which is fine for this server.

But anyhow, your damage would be:
1d12 (Greatsword)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
+ 15 (Strength modifier)
+ 30 (Improved Power Attack)
+ 6 (Favored Enemies)
+ 2d6 (Bane of enemies)
= 68.5~ damage on avarage hit.

In otherwords, you can afford to miss few hits. (The last Favored Enemy is just picked for PVP reasons, since elves are so common.)

[PhantomLamb]

Ah thanks, that's along the lines I was thinking. I forgot that FPE is per favored enemy. Last server I was on, it was just one feat that applied to all your favored enemies. I agree, it seems wayyy to heavy of a feat sink to make it useful when you take it per enemy.

Hewlander feat might help. I haven't looked at One Weapon -- does that work with 2h?

[chad878262]

Yeah, spending feats on Favored Power Attack is an RP decision only. As a pure 'building' decision it is poor -- unless you are only ever going to go area's where there are "Giants" for example, in which case Improved FE and Favored Power Attack are both good picks. However, even then I would grab them in pre-epics and make sure to get epic feats at epic levels. You might still be better off going with two weapon fighting, but if you want to use a great weapon I would just pick Archery style to use when I want and go for it.

Another option for a 'Sneaky Kabonger' if F12/WoD10/A8. WoD gets hide/move silently as class skills, so with Able Learner this should give you a good mix of skill points, sneak skills, HiPS and plenty of feats to improve your damage from F12. You could also replace A8 with FB5/SD3 to still have HiPS if you wanted. Yet another option would be F12/WoD4/A9/FB5

[Sun Wukong]

Hewlander feat might help.

Northlander Hewing can work as an alternative to Improved Power Attack, but to get most out of it you really need to squeeze your base strength as high as possible. You could use both at the same time, Enhanced Improved Power Attack for +20 damage, weapon damage dice maximised, and +(STR modifier)*2.5 as extra damage on top. You would be at -8 AB though.

As for One Weapon, it gives you +1 AC, sometimes more and it can be used together Improved Power Attack.

Thus, if you drop the Favored Power Attack feats from the previous build, you should be able to get either Northlander Hewing/One Weapon, and either +2 Great Strength feats and Epic Prowess with Expose Weakness (better choice) or +4 Great Strength feats. (Both end up at same AB, but expose weakness translates to more damage due to the AC debuff.)

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

How about Ghostfaced Killer?

[Sun Wukong]

There is nothing wrong with an EDM using Fighter 16/Blackguard 4/Ghostfaced Killer 10 build.

Something like this perhaps: http://nwn2db.com/build/?276745

[PhantomLamb]

The Frightful Attack bit seems a little limited in its use/day. But it got me thinking about a Smite build? I wonder if something like Cavalier Paladin could be taken down that road using Able Learner and some sneaky PRCs with it.

* Edit: maybe not Cavalier, it would be a real stretch to the Paladin's code to use stealth routinely for an executioner-style blow!

[PhantomLamb]

I think I may go for a hin 2hw build: some combo of Swashbuckler X, FB 5, and Duelist 10 using a small weapon.

Some questions for those in the know before I head down this road please

1) Let's say I use Rapier, which is a 2hw for a hin. My understanding is that he'd wield it as 2h, and while weapon finesse wouldn't activate, the weapon itself still qualifies for the SB INT bonus and Duelist piercing bonus. That way I can focus stats on STR instead of DEX. Is that correct?
The alternative is to use a small weapon like a handaxe and focus on DEX, but that strays from the concept.

2) So then, what works best to get the sneaky angle?
* Assassin seems the most natural fit with the INT benefit, but I'm not sure I want to RP an Assassin.
* SD would be relatively easy to qualify for with the feat overlap.
* Rogue would also be very easy, but I've never played with HITS instead of HIPS. Wouldn't get up very high to negate the delay.
* Any other suggestions? HIPS/HITS may not be needed at all. He'll probably be a good fighter, so sneaking in initially will be all that's really needed.

3) Lastly, going back to the Smite idea, is Pious Templar broken? What is the Lore requirement on BG?

[Egg Shen]

Weapon finesse should still work with rapier, even those you're small. I know it does with a short sword. Might not change your plans, but just wanted to make sure you were aware. I play a dex/intel based swash/duelist/assassin/rogue and he drops the hammer out of stealth fairly nicely (can crit for well over 100 on a flourish), but can just go toe to toe when needed as well.

[PhantomLamb]

Updates on some of the questions. Any insight you have here would be helpful! Thanks for bearing with me.

1) Use of a rapier
I did some testing and it appears a Short Sword does a bit more damage than a Rapier. Both appeared to activate Precision damage (Duelist), and both worked with PA. So my guess is that Insightful Strike (SB) did not activate for the Rapier?
What I'm not clear on would be the STR bonus for a Rapier vs. SS. I would think the rapier gets additional STR damage because it's 2h for the small character, but that did not show in the character screen for damage.

2) Still toying with build ideas:
* While Assassin may be the strongest direction, I'm going to avoid it for RP reasons
* Shadow Dancer likewise seems good for HIPS access
* Go Ranger instead of SB? Loses the INT damage but gains FPA. That being said, FPA is a huge sink in feats.
* Go Rogue instead of SB? I feel like rogue can be a waste w/out dual wielding though.
* SB 10/Duelist 10/FB 5/Breach Gnome 5 for a gnomish version (feat investment is too broad, would need to go ranger or rogue for the stealth so couldn't do fighter)
* Go REALLY fun and grab Monkey Grip. Ditch SB and go back to (god, here I go again) using a spear.

3) Found the answer on Pious Templar: not implemented yet, sorry.

[Babuguuscooties]

I'm by no means one of the build gurus here, but one thing I've realized already is that no build is going to be without its drawbacks. Few, if any builds "get it all", so to speak. So it basically will come down to what are you willing to give up, or what is it you really want in your build? This is a tough question if you're a noob like me because Idk what I even want lol.

[PhantomLamb]

I'm by no means one of the build gurus here, but one thing I've realized already is that no build is going to be without its drawbacks. Few, if any builds "get it all", so to speak. So it basically will come down to what are you willing to give up, or what is it you really want in your build? This is a tough question if you're a noob like me because Idk what I even want lol.

Totally agree! I don't want to min/max the heck out of it. What I'm afraid of us that I don't know the top end of BG. I'd hate to invest hours and hours in a character that has no viability at level 20+ because I didn't know the dungeons well enough.

[Babuguuscooties]

I'm by no means one of the build gurus here, but one thing I've realized already is that no build is going to be without its drawbacks. Few, if any builds "get it all", so to speak. So it basically will come down to what are you willing to give up, or what is it you really want in your build? This is a tough question if you're a noob like me because Idk what I even want lol.

Totally agree! I don't want to min/max the heck out of it. What I'm afraid of us that I don't know the top end of BG. I'd hate to invest hours and hours in a character that has no viability at level 20+ because I didn't know the dungeons well enough.

Well you're doing the right thing by asking around. These guys will get you set up with the best you can be. Just try and remember that they are thinking in terms of numbers based on what the server calls for. The stuff you and I don't know yet. I've seen a few people get frustrated with suggestions because they want the perfect character to match their RP concept. Just be open to the fact that the right build for you might take a few pages to reach

[Deathgrowl]

If you want something other than ranger though, consider sneak/death attack in combination with twohanded weapon and power attack.

Fighter12/rogue3/assassin8/wilderness stalker7?

Or even enhanced power attack: fighter12/rogue4/assassin9/fb5