suggestion: Call of the Bloodspear

[aaron22]

this is a divine spell for those devoted to the leader of the orc pantheon, gruumsh. trying to really embody the the melee focus of the god and a small sample of his fabled weapon.

in complete divine it is stated that gruumsh will sometimes hurl a spear at one of his clerics and if the cleric survives he can wield the thrown spear. this spear came with qualities of +2 EB that turns to +4 if hit the rd before and +5 if a critical hit. im not going to lie, that is too complicated. but lets draw upon the idea and grant something that is more suited to the server.

ok so lets look at gruumsh weapon. the bloodspear. it is a spear that +4 (+6 vs elves) on hit causes paralysis DC ?, but save is at -4. duration of paralysis 2d4 turns!! what?

he also wields a torch that will create the "fog of war" which is a buffed up version of cloudkill.

lets stay away from the cloudkill perhaps and look at the spear.

what stands out to me is the paralysis effect that can lay on you for up to 80 rds. ok so how about this....

Call of the Bloodspear

Spell Level: Innate: 7, Cleric 7
School: Conjuration
Components: None
Range: Personal
Target/Area: Self
Duration: 1 minute
Save: Fortitude
Spell Resistance: No

From the heavens the devoted cleric of Gruumsh calls forth The Bloodspear of Gruumsh and the All-Seeing-Eye grants this request, but not in a way the cleric may desire. The spear falls toward the cleric and strikes the caster. If the caster survives the attack then the spear is temporarily in the possession of the caster.

Bloodspear of Gruumsh
Size: Large
Damage: 1d10
Crit Range: 20
Crit Multiplier: x3
Damage Type: Piercing

EB: +4
Damage Bonus: +2 vs Elves (divine)
On Hit: Paralysis 2d4 rds (Fortitude -4 negates, DC as per conjuration spell of level)
Only Usable By: Grey Orc, Half-Orc, Evil, Cleric, Favored Soul

edited: DC set to be as a spell of caster's ability
Yes? No? Maybe so? (do) you aaron22?

[aaron22]

On hit paralysis? On every hit? for 2d4 rounds?

there is a save

[mrm3ntalist]

Interesting spell. However, like Chambo already mentioned the paralysis on hit effect will never happen as it is described. What we commonly have is:

DCs 14-16, A low % of the effect applying, 1 or 2 rounds.

[aaron22]

the spear only lasts a minute and its first hit is on the caster. that doesn't change anything?

[mrm3ntalist]

the spear only lasts a minute and its first hit is on the caster. that doesn't change anything?

No, it doesnt. Too strong

[aaron22]

drop it to 1d4 rds? suggestion? or should i just go back to the drawing board as it's all bad.

[mrm3ntalist]

DCs 14-16, A low % of the effect applying, 1 or 2 rounds.

Thats what an on hit effect should look like

[aaron22]

this is a spell not a weapon you can carry to every battle and keep forever. its not an endless supply of on hit paralysis. its a spell. not a weapon you buy from the blacksmith. how is this so different than swamp lung(fort save negates prone 1d6) stone hold (will save or paralyze 1d6) stinking cloud (fort save every rd stun in cloud at 6 sec/cl) or worse flesh to stone (save or die) finger of death (save or die) at lower level spells. those are one shot granted, but they are easier to land and have no mortal danger tied to it.

if i made it just a save or die would that be better? if i gave it a 6sec/CL duration and a lower on hit% would that be better? If I made it a simple large AOE and pursued the fog of war concept instead with a higher HD checks. (didnt think making an arcane spell divine would go over well and it lacks creativity) these would be suggestions. im not a mind reader LOL.

perhaps i should just make it exactly the same as stone hold and give it a fancy name? no. it would have a high chance of landing and it lasts longer than 2 rounds. higher chance of landing than the custom spell does.

if it were truly too powerful then the cleric would not want to cast it because it would be a death sentence for the caster.

maybe i did not explain well the spell in the description.

it puts a weapon on your person that hits you automatically for 1d10 +4 damage and the caster must make a fortitude save against your DC+spell level (7). after that, you may equip the spear and use it but only for 1 minute (10 rounds) then it disappears and you must go back to your regular arsenal. the weapon has a on hit paralysis effect that is the casters DC+7 and a +4 EB with 2 divine damage bonus to elves.

[mrm3ntalist]

it puts a weapon on your person that hits you automatically for 1d10 +4 damage and the caster must make a fortitude save against your DC+spell level (7). after that, you may equip the spear and use it but only for 1 minute (10 rounds) then it disappears and you must go back to your regular arsenal. the weapon has a on hit paralysis effect that is the casters DC+7 and a +4 EB with 2 divine damage bonus to elves.

You mean it will hit the same caster with freedom of movement? Is that even a concern?

After that, it will have a weapon with an on hit property which will fire every time a hit lands with such high DC for the spells duration? I think not.

But dont let me discourage you. If you think it is fine, go for it.

[aaron22]

ok. by passes freedom of movement or similar spells.

[PiaMango]

Let's makes some assumptions:

A cleric with divine power active gets 6 attacks per round.
Say half of those attacks are successful on average.
Assume that the enemy has a fort save high enough that it can only fail on a 1.

So thats 3 attempts to paralyse a round with a 5% success rate.
Resulting in a 14.3% chance to paralyse from attacks on a round.

The defender starts off not being paralysed with a 14.3% chance of being paralysed in the second round.

In the next round if he was paralysed he has a 5% chance of failing the save and 14.3% chance of being paralysed by attacks again, meaning he has a 18.5% chance of being paralysed again if he was already paralysed and a 14.3% chance if he wasn't.

So this is a 14.3% chance to be paralysed from the first round and around about 14.6% for each subsequent round (although the % should increase slightly for each subsequent round). This gives an expected paralysis rate of ~1.46 rounds for a 1 minute duration, or ~2.93 if extended. This seems fair. But do my assumptions hold?

Let's investigate what the QC are probably worried about the spell, the pvp potential.

For our orcish warlord we have a 30cl cleric with 20 wisdom (with items) and 22 (base) Str.
Fully buffed to his britches he has:
AB: 30 (base) + 9 (str) + 4 (EB) + 3 (Divine F) + 1 (Prayer) + 3 (Recitation) + 1 (Bless) + 1 (Battletide)
AB: 52
So his attacks are:
+52/+47/+42/+37/+32/+27

With 30CL and 20 Wisdom his DCs are 18 + spell level meaning the save for the paralysis is 25 (ignoring the -3 to saves from prayer/battletide).

Say our orcish warlord ambushes an adventuring party consisting of.
Elfarian the paladin:
AC: 48
Fort: 27

Knee the rogue:
AC: 43
Fort: 17

So against this duo how would our warlord stand?
Elfarian
Avg attacks hit per round: 3.45
Save chance: 95%
Save chance, with debuffs: 95%
Save chance, with debuffs with -4 to save: 75%
Expected rounds paralysis: 1.69
With debuffs and -4 to save: 6.8

So with the saves debuffs and -4 to saving throw Elfarian would be locked out of his character for 7 out of 10 rounds that it is active. This is ignoring that if he is paralyzed the warlord gets +4 to attack.

Knee
Avg attacks hit per round: 4.4
Save chance: 60%
Save chance, with debuffs: 45%
Save chance, with debuffs with -4 to save: 25%
Expected rounds of paralysis: 9.2
With debuffs: 9.7
With debuffs and -4 to save: 9.99

Needless to say the poor rogue would be helpless if the orc even grazed her leaving her almost permanently stunned.

So even a paladin who has fort as a high save with bonus cha to saves and assuming some +saves from items at max level would still be paralysed 7 out of 10 rounds it is active (14 if extended) in its current state.

A rogue or any class with a mediocre fort save, or any character that isnt max level is almost guaranteed to be permanently paralysed which is an insta win for any pvp battle and it gives them no opportunity to flee because their character is locked.

[Tsidkenu]

Change it from On Hit Paralysis 100%/1 round DC whatever to On Hit Paralysis 50% and the spell is sufficiently nerfed, esp with the way NWN2 calculates that 50% on hit chance (more like 20% lol).

[PiaMango]

The changes I would recommend are lowering the DC to 10 + wis modifier and maybe increasing the duration to 1.5 minutes.

This gives the normal version the expectation of paralysing an enemy for 2 rounds during its duration, and 4 rounds for an extended cast.

Are there kamas with on hit paralysis?
A perfect 2 weapon fighting greater flurry rogue/monk would have something like 12 attacks. At a 5% chance to paralyse on hit that gives a ~40% chance to paralyse an enemy each round.

[aaron22]

displacement and mirror image would be a problem for this spell. and those are utilized by the same types of characters that have the low fort save. the most vulnerable by numbers is actually the ones that are the most safe. but i did not create this spell with PvP in mind.. built it on RP.

if a cleric gets a spot on a rogue it's in trouble anyway. that is kind of how a rogue works. the rogue lives and dies by not getting caught. the % against a rogue on a deadly AOE spell would be considerably higher than the spear spell is and the rogue would not have to make the mistake of getting caught with it's pants down. just be wrong place at wrong time and it's pushing daisies against a well timed AOE.

another note is this spell puts a spear in your hand. clerics typically carry shield and have GMW and keen on their weapon. you lose those things and have to run a spear. if you are favored to gruumsh, then you will already have your WF and WS for spear, but if you are cleric and decided another path, you have have to drop AC and any personal gear synergy and have a 15% chance to be paralyzed in this state.

1 min is not a long time(i would prefer it not be extendable). if a cleric is surrounded, it might be able to paralyze one or two of the enemies that it senses to be the weakest. for 1d4 rounds . (surrounded might not be the time to use this spell though as the ends and means may not add up) that is not game changing. a KD or any self perseverance spells would waste valuable seconds. i really doubt this spell would change that outcome. the level 3,4,5 spells would go A LOT further in keeping this cleric alive in that situation.

[chad878262]

I use bladeweave all the time with great success...DC16 daze effect for round per level. Paralysis is an auto win on a roll of a 1. I recommend it be lowered in duration to 1 round/ 5 levels which would cap it at 30 seconds. DC 5 + WIS modifier. With divine power up and haste that is 7x6=42 saves vs paralysis (36 without haste).

Thus it's a good spell against a boss/pvp, but not long term.

This still might be too much though and better option would be to make it grant on hit paralysis ~10 or 15%, DC10 +WIS modifier for round/ level.