Build Challenge: Feinting Phantom

[Sun Wukong]

How would you go at making a feinting Phatom?

[Hendrak]

Probably Half-Elf. Silver Tongue as heritage feat. Insert Guild Thief, get some CHA and SF Bluff.

[Valefort]

Phantom 16/ guild thief 4 / Man-at-Arms 10 for originality

STR and some CHA, sword and board, bluff feats, shield slam if you can fit it in.

[chad878262]

Here's what I came up with... Main issue I see will be AC, since it's still DEX based wearing no armor and doesn't get Epic Dodge. Likely would be dependent upon wands of IMA/Shield. Started with Half-elf, but figured Human with SF: Bluff is +1 over what Half-elf gets without the free feat. Attack Bonus is more than enough, Epic Feat at 21 is Epic Precision.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?283850

[Sun Wukong]

Does the Ki Step work while in armor? @Valefort

[Sun Wukong]

Here's what I came up with... Main issue I see will be AC, since it's still DEX based wearing no armor and doesn't get Epic Dodge. Likely would be dependent upon wands of IMA/Shield. Started with Half-elf, but figured Human with SF: Bluff is +1 over what Half-elf gets without the free feat. Attack Bonus is more than enough, Epic Feat at 21 is Epic Precision.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?283850

Phantom gets Crippling Strike at level 16 according to the wiki, so I would get Precise Strike at level 29 the soonest.

[chad878262]

Here's what I came up with... Main issue I see will be AC, since it's still DEX based wearing no armor and doesn't get Epic Dodge. Likely would be dependent upon wands of IMA/Shield. Started with Half-elf, but figured Human with SF: Bluff is +1 over what Half-elf gets without the free feat. Attack Bonus is more than enough, Epic Feat at 21 is Epic Precision.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?283850

Phantom gets Crippling Strike at level 16 according to the wiki, so I would get Precise Strike at level 29 the soonest.

Yeah...hadn't had my coffee yet, but that is a problem. Can delay Invisible Blade 4/5 and Guild Thief 4 until levels 28-30, just make Skill Focus: Bluff your GT4 feat. This would allow Epic Precision at 25.

[Valefort]

Does the Ki Step work while in armor? @Valefort

Yes

[Sun Wukong]

Phantom 16/ guild thief 4 / Man-at-Arms 10 for originality

STR and some CHA, sword and board, bluff feats, shield slam if you can fit it in.

Well, I have had Rogue 16/Fighter 14 builds before, so it is not that different. Man-at-Arms would grant +3 AC. Phantom would get few Ghost Steps, which I am familiar with from earlier Ghost-Faced Killer character. I would have to play either a Human or Half-elf to avoid multiclassing experience penalty. But the biggest issue seems to be Epic Precision, which you could get soonest at level 23, which is not all that bad in honesty. Thus the build kind of leans towards Phantom first, Man-at-Arms later, hence the Man-at-Arms feats cannot be really used early on.

Moreover, it is so close to 26 BAB, but it only gets 25.

But yeah, in theory at least, the above build would be without AC issue...

[Sun Wukong]

Since Ghost Step requires you to be without armor... I started to think about other ways to raise the armor...

A build such as Phantom 20/Fist of the Forest 3/Duelist 7. You would get your base AC from dexterity, base constitution, wisdom, and intelligence. Therefore, if I have with 14+ in all of these stats and acquire +4 items for dexterity, intelligence, and wisdom, I would get 14+ points of AC. It would be the same, if not better as a regular full plate with tower shield. Not to mention that with Duelist 7 I could ignore the need for a Deflection item.

The downside would be:
That I would need to get the following feats: Great Fortitude, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, and Weapon finesse, which only leaves me 2 feats pre-epic. While Fist of the Forest does grant Dash and Blindfight feats... it becomes difficult to fit in both Blinding Strike and Feint.

Thus, it might make sense to drop Fist of the Forest, as it grants the smallest AC buff.


Any thoughts?

[Hendrak]

Maybe Warlock instead FoF. Has an incantation which gives +6 bluff. Bard of course is also good.Both classes give access to UMD too.

[Sun Wukong]

Those three warlock levels could be a good idea... You could even get a little bit extra damage from Hideous Blow.

But the problem is that I tried to make a human Phantom/Duelist and I just could not fit in all the feats that I wanted. Which has made me consider abandoning this whole feinting aspect of the build.

[Hendrak]

Belt of Mischief gives Feint as bonus feat if you can find one. Maybe some Guild Thief level too? Bonus feats and reputation feat.
Cleric dip with right domains could also help. (Trickery,Trade)

[Sun Wukong]

Which are also things that will delay Epic Precision.

[Sun Wukong]

I dropped the idea of a feinting Phantom... http://nwn2db.com/build/?284011 For a Northlander Hewing Phantom. The build should get 3 daily uses of haste from Duelist, and other than that should stock up with wands of haste for '4' attacks per round.

The skill points in stealth could be used elsewhere... But basically, you you use expose weakness to lower AC, you got that Blinding Strike to occasionally blind enemies, and you got that 23 uses of Ghost Step.

You use a spear, and the Duelist damage is not maximised with Northlander Hewing.


Red Wizards sell a +4 Intelligence item, the Elves sell a +4 dexterity item. Does some place sell a +4 Wisdom item?

And yes, I know, the saves are just garbage.