Spellcraft bonus not applied?

[yinyangzealot]

Hi,
I hope this is the correct board, apologies if it is not.

I was fighting the lich in the cave on the Cloud peaks mountain. My fort save is 27 and I have a spellcraft rank of 30. He first cast Bigby's Clenched Fist, requiring a save of 32. The game used my basic score of 27 when rolling for a save, although I rolled high. It did not apply the +6 to saves.

He then cast Vampiric Feast and that did count my +6.



He then cast Bigby's Crushing Hand, which again did not give me my +6 to spells bonus. The roll was 27 v 32 instead of 33 v 32. I really only should have failed on a 1.




Is this usual? Do Bigby's ignore the spellcraft bonus? If not, what happened? It seems strange that I got the bonus from a spell like ability but not an actual spell from a spellbook. Is this a bug or a custom change of some kind?

Thanks.

[Tsidkenu]

Bigby's Crushing Hand has no saving throw as its an opposed grapple check vs higher of your STR or DEX. You should be getting +6 vs spell for Bigby's Clenched Fist, though. Probably an oversight in the scripting of its saving throw somewhere.

[mrm3ntalist]

Bigby's Crushing Hand has no saving throw as its an opposed grapple check vs higher of your STR or DEX. You should be getting +6 vs spell for Bigby's Clenched Fist, though. Probably an oversight in the scripting of its saving throw somewhere.

Are the attacks from the Bigby Hand spells or physical?

[Tsidkenu]

False dichotomy. It's a spell (evocation) causing physical damage. They're not actual creatures unlike being wailed on by a summoned pit fiend or whatever.

[mrm3ntalist]

False dichotomy. It's a spell (evocation) causing physical damage. They're not actual creatures unlike being wailed on by a summoned pit fiend or whatever.

What is the hand? Isnt it a construct or whatever? Because it can be attacked. It has physical form. Its tough to tell whether the bonus should be applied or not.

[Tsidkenu]

Yes, because this server's mechanical representation of a magical evocation force effect must therefore imply they are one and the same.

Congratulations. You have won this argument.
/sarcasm

[mrm3ntalist]

uhm.... ok

[Valefort]

Let's not get too riled up for nothing... I looked up the scripts on the server and then the vanilla ones, on that point they're similar and spellcraft is not taken into account. Therefore I have no idea if that was intended or not.

Is the behaviour correct ? It's a magical hand sure but it tries to squeeze and stun you, should spellcraft apply at all here ? I have no idea and it's not clear to me, if someone has clear insight on this please share it.

[Steve]

Clenched Fist first makes an SR check. If that fails, the spell should fizzle out.

If it overcomes SR, then the save. It IS a spell, so Save Bonus vs. Spell should apply, for the stunning.

Now, the argument comes down to whether the Stun is a magical effect directly, or being stunned is an indirect effect from the "clenching."

From the wiki:

This check occurs every round, including the initial round. If the target has been struck, they take 1d8 + 11 non-magical bludgeoning damage - then they must also make a fortitude save else be stunned for 6 seconds.

The wording implies the stun comes from being struck, so it would be a purely physical stunning, not a purely magical—without form—stun.

Unlike a Fort save mind effect, for example.