Warlock Invocation Updates

[metaquad4]

IMO, there are three warlock invocations that are too specific. If these invocations were changed in the following manner, it would allow for them to be picked by a greater diversity of characters. Also, they really could use an update "for the times".

Word of Changing: Change to a Baeful Polymorph-like spell. If that is too OP, then changed it to a Shapechange-like spell. Include horned devil shape, along with a few other shapes (like treant, slaad, fomorians, dryads, etc.. . .).

Hellspawned Grace: Change the name to "Grace of the Pact" and include a few lesser shapes (shambling mound, lesser slaad, lesser demons/devils, pixies, etc.).

The Dead Walk: Change the name to "Pact's Ally" and include some other lesser summons other than zombies (weaker planar creatures, pixies, will'o'wisps, etc.).

[Sun Wukong]

Word of Changing: Change to a Baeful Polymorph-like spell. If that is too OP, then changed it to a Shapechange-like spell. Include horned devil shape, along with a few other shapes (like treant, slaad, fomorians, dryads, etc.. . .).

I suppose there is no harm done by bringing the NWN2 Word of Changing in line with the current Polymorph and Shapechange spells. You get extra AC and weapon properties from equipment, and you get the Shift Shape feat.

But doesn't that Word of Changing turn things into toads in PnP? Perhaps create a blast essence that turns targets it hits into chickens. Can you imagine Eldritch Chain turning all it hits into a chicken for a short period of time? Maybe for 2-10 rounds? It might be bit OP though, as it makes enemies pretty much unable to fight back on those failed saves...

[metaquad4]

I think they decided that giving warlock baeful polymorph would be too OP. Since its an infinite cast to eventually get a 1 (if the DC is low).

[Sun Wukong]

Baleful Polymorph Blast Essence, Duration 1d10 rounds, 95% chance to turn something into a chicken, and a 5% chance to turn it to a Balor.

[NegInfinity]

IMO, there are three warlock invocations that are too specific. If these invocations were changed in the following manner, it would allow for them to be picked by a greater diversity of characters. Also, they really could use an update "for the times".

Word of Changing: Change to a Baeful Polymorph-like spell. If that is too OP, then changed it to a Shapechange-like spell. Include horned devil shape, along with a few other shapes (like treant, slaad, fomorians, dryads, etc.. . .).

Hellspawned Grace: Change the name to "Grace of the Pact" and include a few lesser shapes (shambling mound, lesser slaad, lesser demons/devils, pixies, etc.).

The Dead Walk: Change the name to "Pact's Ally" and include some other lesser summons other than zombies (weaker planar creatures, pixies, will'o'wisps, etc.).

NO.

That's homebrewing and will break many existing strategies.

Word of changing is incredibly weak, and is useless for anything other than walking through lava and carrying stuff. It is not "OP" by any means.

Hellspawned grace never had additional shapes. It was supposed to polymorph you into hellcat.

Dead walk was never intended to be a summoning power tied to your pact. Necromancy is not summoning.

Now one thing you COULD do is adding "baleful polymorph" which would work as Word of Changing is supposed to (transform opponent into squirrel/pig/any other animal), but replacing existing invvocations is definite no.

Basically, warlocks do not have summoning and polymorph spells - with exception of dark discorporation (transform into swarm) and hallspawned grace (transform into hellcat). And I'd rather not see completely random powers here.

Do not mess up existing powers and do not change them. There's no lore reason for any of this either.

[Sun Wukong]

Word of changing is incredibly weak, and is useless for anything other than walking through lava and carrying stuff. It is not "OP" by any means.

So, lets change to it be in accordance with current Polymorphing. Equipment gives boosts to the forms, and you have a multiple forms to choose from list of evil and chaotic creatures. You could still walk through lava and carry stuff with the Cornugon shape. You would not lose anything. It would not change any tactic.

[NegInfinity]

So, lets change to it be in accordance with current Polymorphing. Equipment gives boosts to the forms, and you have a multiple forms to choose from list of evil and chaotic creatures. You could still walk through lava and carry stuff with the Cornugon shape. You would not lose anything. It would not change any tactic.

No.

Existing powers should not be touched because somebody relies on them.

I'm all for adding "Baleful Polymorph" spell though.

have a multiple forms to choose from list of evil and chaotic creatures.

I'm against it.

Warlocks do not polymorph by any means other than dark discorporation and hellspawned grace and can't summon anything, only raise zombies. Obsidian homebrewed one useless invocation, so I guess that one stays as well, but no more polymorphing powers and no incorporation of current shapechange system.

I don't want random powers pulled out of somebody's a** and would prefer suggestions to have some shred of respect to the original lore and tiny bit of understanding of what warlock is.

This one sounds like another theme-park request along the lines of "I want more cool powers for no reason whatosevah!".

By the way, you won't be able to cast anything in those forms either. That will make them useless.

[NegInfinity]

For shifters there's a shifter class that's been sitting on "will go live someday" list.
https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Shifter

And polymorph-inclined people can already make a warlock/druid.

I don't want any lore-breaking powers.

[Nemni]

This is a computer adaptation, it's not shocking that obsidian decided to let warlocks turn into a devil instead of a swarm of bats. And since the spell exists it makes sense to update it to the new system, just as the other spells were.

[Khazrak]

Personally, I'd want to see the shapeshifting invocations changed to suit the different pacts, and maybe allow the player to (at some point) designate what kind of pact they have. After all, server lore indicates that the fey, celestials, demons, devils, and slaads all can grant pacts - last I recall, anyway.

Ah, here it is: click.

Would love to see the ability for fey pacted individuals to turn into capricious fey entities instead of hell hounds, for instance.

[metaquad4]

Its not lore breaking, Neg. If you actually delve into the lore, you will note that warlocks have more possible pacts than infernal ones. And with the limited spells on the server (we don't have all of PnP spells, as you may or may not be aware), we need to be able to be flexible with as many character types as possible. This is a fairly simple way to do that.

Existing powers wouldn't (and shouldn't) be effected, in this proposed changed. For that very reason, some people's RP is dependent on them. Horned Devil Shape, Hellhound Shape, and the Zombie/Skeleton summons should all remain, for that very reason. The only change would be additions, nothing would be removed. So, that is a moot point.

[NegInfinity]

Its not lore breaking, Neg. If you actually delve into the lore, you will note that warlocks have more possible pacts than infernal ones.

It is. Warlcoks do not summon and do not randomly polymorph into other creatures. The only two polymorph spells are Dark Discorporations (turn into swarm), and Hellspawned grace (hellcat).

And with the limited spells on the server (we don't have all of PnP spells, as you may or may not be aware),

THe way I see it - want polymorphing warlocks, implement dark discorporation instead.

I prefer warlock invocations to be rooted in source books. Otherwise the only thing you'll do is dilute the classes and make every class feel mechanically the same. There are already homebrewed invocations and there shouldn't be more.

Now, can you find an official that mentions any powers you proposed here?

Here's the list of warlock invocations:
http://dnd.kermodebear.org/InvocationLists

we need to be able to be flexible with as many character types as possible.

That's why there are different classes. Total amount of possible nwn2 builds is probably around quadrillion.

Existing powers wouldn't (and shouldn't) be effected, in this proposed changed. For that

I strongly dislike proposals that are not supported by PNP lore and view them negatively.
Polymorphing into other creatures is not what warlocks normally do, that's druid's job.

And as I said, you wouldn't be able to cast in those forms anyway. People asked for "Guttural Invocation" feat before (also homebrewed) which WOULD make devil shape useful, and that was largely ignored.

I also proposed new warlock invocations - from pnp - in the past.
Nothing has come out of it.

https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?t=54639&p=690309

^^^ I would prefer any of this to be implemented, rather than seeing more homebrewed stuff that has no basis in the lore.

[NegInfinity]

And speaking of polymorphing, here's one more lore-friendly invocation I found:

Mask of Flesh: Lesser, 3rd; Take on the physical form of a living creature of your own size with a touch attack. If you desire, you may impose a 1d6 Cha penalty to the target, but the Charisma can't be lower than 1. Will save negates both effects, and a creature that saved can not be affected for another 24 hours. Both effects last for 1 hour per CL; If you dismiss the invocation, both effects end.

This is better and in line with sinister warlock image.

I.e. "I steal your face!" and not "I turn into a devil for no reason".

[chad878262]

I worry over the RP complications of a warlock being able to turn in to a devil or demon. I mean...If I was a devil in a fictional world and I made a pact to grant powers for a soul I certainly would NOT make one of those powers the ability for the warlock to turn in to me!

[Apis]

Is this one lore-based?

Subject: Thaumaturge for warlocks.

It might make sense to add a "summon cohort" ability to the class (1/day) that would act like planar binding (lesser, normal, or greater, depending on the caster level). This would accomodate for classes that do not get access to the summoning spells.

I don't play warlocks often, and they weren't a thing when I played pnp.