Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

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Sun Wukong
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Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

The difference between a Strongheart and a Lightfoot halfling is that Strongheart halflings get a bonus feat, while Lightfoot halflings get a +1 to all saves. If you go for completely identical builds, the Strongheart halfling could just spend their racial feat on Luck of Heroes and get +1 AC on top of the +1 to all saves.

Mechanically speaking, there is no reason to take Lighfoot over Stronheart.
Current Strongheart racial perks, wrote:
  • Skill Affinity (Move Silently): +2 racial bonus on move silently checks.
  • Fearless: +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear
  • Good Aim: +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings.
  • Skill Affinity (Listen): +2 racial bonus on listen checks.
  • Quick to Master: Strongheart halflings gain an extra feat at 1st level.
Current Lightfoot racial perks, wrote:
  • Skill Affinity (Move Silently): +2 racial bonus on move silently checks.
  • Fearless: +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear
  • Good Aim: +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings.
  • Skill Affinity (Listen): +2 racial bonus on listen checks.
  • Lucky: +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
Therefore, I would suggest that Lightfoot Halflings should get the following additional perks:
  • Skill Affinity (Hide): +2 racial bonus on hide checks.
  • Born Scoundrels: Lightfoot halflings gain the Stealthy feat for free at 1st level.
This change would make Lightfoot halflings slightly better 'Sneaks' than Strongheart halflings. While a Strongheart could just grab the Stealthy feat at level one with their bonus feat, a Lighfoot would still have that +2 racial bonus to their hide checks, and the benefit of having +1 to their saves for being born Lucky.

The Stealthy feat is required for the following PRCs: Guild Thief, and Divine Seeker.



With these changes, I believe Lightfoot halflings would gain more popularity over time and the areas surrounding Baldur's Gate would become less of a colony for the Kingdom of Luiren.
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Khazrak
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Khazrak »

+1.

It's not a bad call and gives Lightfoot halflings an actual role to fill. If not both, then one or the other - free Stealthy or free +2 Hide.
scriver
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by scriver »

While I understand the sentiment, making LF less of an unfavourable choice compared to SH is a lot easier said than done. It's hard to compete with a free feat. Essentially giving LG two extra feats as in your suggestion makes them the better choice for sneaks, but it doesn't change that SH is still the self clear choice got every other kind of character, and it heavily unbalances LF towards other, non-halfling races as far as sneakers goes.

Because of the feat ability Stronghearts are usually considered one of the most powerful races in pnp, and while nwn2 doesn't have nearly the same selection of feats to build with, the reasoning still holds some truth here. Being able to choose anything is generally just plain more versatile than already having your abilities chosen for you.
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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB »

You can't just judge everything from powerbuilder point of view. If I want to roleplay a lightfoot hin - I will create a lightfoot hin, I won't choose a strongheart only because of the bonus feat. You are overestimating that feature, like it would make strongheart 358391857901785290 times stronger than lightfoot, come on.
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Khazrak
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Khazrak »

It'd be nice to have a mechanical reason to play Lightfoot, however. Just give 'em some small boost that Strongheart doesn't get so you have +1 to all saves and +something else handy. Nothing huge - just enough so there's a sense of validation (versus a Strongheart Halfling just picking Luck of Heroes > your saving throw bonus).
Sun Wukong
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

scriver wrote:Essentially giving LG two extra feats as in your suggestion makes them the better choice for sneaks, but it doesn't change that SH is still the self clear choice got every other kind of character, and it heavily unbalances LF towards other, non-halfling races as far as sneakers goes.
Whenever I encounter a Strongheart halfling in game, it is a sneak. Whenever someone asks help with a halfling build, it is a sneak. The exceptions to this rule are mostly just my own halfling characters. (Who are Dragon Slayers...)

As for this making the Lightfoot halflings the de facto sneak race:
  • Grey Dwarves get +4 to Move Silently, along with all their racial immunites, and the free Invisibility spell.
  • Thieflings get +2 to their Hide, on top of also being a +2 dexterity and intelligence race. Not to mention that the racial Darkness spell can be used to break line of sight these days on this server. The +2 to Bluff that Thieflings get also make them a good choice for feinters, even with their -2 to charisma.
Now, lore-wise, the most stereoptypical image of a Lightfoot halflings is that of a rogue. Especially a rogue that is tangled up with some thieves guild. Just read a random Forgotten Realms novel, and the chances are that a halfling mentioned is both a member of a thieves guild and a rogue.

Thus making Lightfoot halflings slightly better sneaks is in my opinion a lore based change. It does not twist the race into something that it is not, and in my opinion it should make the halflings population slightly more lore appropriate in the long run.

The server has already made a similar change in the past, namely by giving Gnomes +1 spell DCs with the Illusion School of spells. Prior to the third edition rules, gnome arcanists could only be Illusionists, and thus a Rock Gnome Illusionist stands roughly at the same line as a Sun Elf Illusionist. (Sun elf has more spells due to higher Intelligence.) While a Deep Gnome Illusionist is able to have that +1 to the Illusion spell DCs over a Sun Elf Illusionist.

Edit: Half-Elves and Half-Drow got the Elven Weapon Proficiency and the Skilled feats added in order to be a better mix of the two other races. Why else would anyone pick a half-elf, when humans used to have that extra feat and skill points over them, and the elves had the racial ability scores and superior perks and proficiencies?

Then there is the half-orcs, who got the Blooded for slightly improved reaction time and detection due to their orcish blood, and a +1 racial modifier to Constitution to help off-set the -2 modifier on both charisma and intelligence. Prior to this change, it made more sense to just roll an Earth Genasi even with their +1 ECL. Now, Half-Orcs are more or less on the same line, with something there to represent the stereotypical hot blooded nature.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Sun Wukong wrote:With these changes, I believe Lightfoot halflings would gain more popularity over time and
The idea of providing mechanical boost to make a race more popular is flawed/invalid to begin with.

The point of a race is to provide an option for people who want to play it. If a race exists in the roster, it does not mean it should be "popular", or have same percent of players as other races, etc.
Sun Wukong
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

NegInfinity wrote:The idea of providing mechanical boost to make a race more popular is flawed/invalid to begin with.
And yet it is exactly what works, and it is not the only argument presented here. Your infinite negativity holds no power here. :lol:
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
MrPsion
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by MrPsion »

This is one of those times when you can tell it's unbalanced because everyone always picks one option over the other.
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Steve
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Steve »

Why not just give Lightfoot EXACTLY the Race bonuses that Stronghearts have, and call it a day?

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Sun Wukong
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Steve wrote:Why not just give Lightfoot EXACTLY the Race bonuses that Stronghearts have, and call it a day?
In that case you could just remove the halfling subrace options and have 'Strongheart' be the standard and only option for a halfling.
chambordini wrote:And provide every existing lightfoot a 100 rcr? *Watches the number of lightfoot halflings go up*
So from two Lightfoot we get up to four or five? You could honestly do this like the many other sneaky updates, and just advertise it after the fact. Thus the number of '100 RCR' Lighftoot halflings characters will be limited.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
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Steve
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Re: Buff the never used Lightfoot Halflings

Unread post by Steve »

chambordini wrote:And provide every existing lightfoot a 100 rcr? *Watches the number of lightfoot halflings go up*
Their numbers wouldn't go up from existing numbers for 100% RCR issue, but perhaps yes more Lightfoot would be created AFTER.

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The half-MAN, the MYrchanT(H), the LEGENDermaine ~ Jon Smythe [Bio]

Brinn Essebrenanath — Volamtar, seeking wisdom within the earth dream [Bio]
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