Stunning Fist and You

[Muckluck]

Not sure whether this goes in areas or here, so I put it here.

I've been playing ("a lot") on my monk lately, and I've noticed that there appear to be some instances, or perhaps it's the creatures, where Stunning Fist doesn't do its thing.
I roll the attack, it hits, they fail the fortitude save, the feedback says Stunning Fist: Hit, but the enemy keeps attacking and acting like normal.

This has applied to some boss monsters and other enemies (humans and not). For some creatures, it's even worked SOME of the time, but not others (the dragonling in the lv2 Hilltop ruins comes to mind).

Any ideas whether this is an actual bug, or an unintended side-effect of how held/paralyze works?

[chad878262]

Constructs, Undead and those immune to crits are also immune to stunning fist. In addition, immunity to mind effects gives immunity to stunning fist. So Protection from Alignment and Mind Blank spells render opponents immune to stunning fist.

[Tekill]

That's a lot of immunity.
DC seem a scootch too low as well.
Stunning fist needs some love.

[chad878262]

DC for a full WIS monk can easily be 35 and even higher, that is plenty high when you consider they can also use stunning fist for Ki Step and Fiery Fists... On top of this with all the other abilities Monks get, they do not need help.

I just rolled up an Aasimar WIS Monk yesterday... Played for 2 hours yesterday and 2 hours today. He's already 1K XP from level 4 and is wrecking CR4 area's solo. Honestly the low level content is pretty easy overall. I was pushing hard even at level 1 and was relatively safe with potions of mage armor and heroism. On top of this, the increased drops makes gold pretty ridiculous as well. No muled gear at all and he has already found +3 dodge boots with extra's, +1 Natural Armor amulet, +1 deflection helm with extra's and with the gold was able to acquire +3 EB gloves, still has over 7K gold and not even level 4 yet.

The only thing that makes CR appropriate area's marginally interesting is the occasional boss spawn that might require me to back off and heal or something.

I really don't think anything about Monk needs a buff. Going the DEX or STR route will have different strengths and weaknesses, certainly Stunning Fist won't be as useful...guess it's a good thing the ability can also fuel fiery fists and/or ki step.

[Flasmix]

Wholeness of Body is a garbage ability.

Here you go, have less HP than a healing kit 1/day.

[chad878262]

Does every ability a class get's have to be pure awesome? Invisible Blade bleeding wound is crap on this server thanks to DR on mobs, but the PRC is still relatively popular. Blackguard Spells are overall crappy, but folks still take it for the other things the class grants. Why does it matter if Monk has a few abilities that are less than stellar? Overall the class can still pretty much wreck PvE content without really needing top end gear. Without considering feats you're looking at 40's - 50's AC, 40 SR, really good saves and decent skill points. Get some haste gear and rock 8 APR with decent damage too.

As players, we can occasionally be our own worst enemies. We want power up after power up, but at some point the power ups render the PvE content impotent and the game ceases to be challenging or fun. It'd be good to keep this in mind when all these requests come in to buff Monk (or Wizard... )

[Steve]

[Muckluck]

Constructs, Undead and those immune to crits are also immune to stunning fist. In addition, immunity to mind effects gives immunity to stunning fist. So Protection from Alignment and Mind Blank spells render opponents immune to stunning fist.

None of these apply in this situation, as far as I can tell (say, the Gibberling chief).

[electric mayhem]

I've even noticed something feeling 'off' about stunning fist. To the point where I don't even use it anymore. No data to back it up though. But felt like there was an AB penalty each time i tried stunning fist, cause it would miss. But follow up attacks would just pummel the enemy away.

The only time i can think of it being handy is for PvP.
But let's face it... how often is PvP actually done on the server to the point where people should actually build for it.

Also the RP behind it always felt a little funny. Imagine this: RP attacking along, working your way through mobs, casually chucking out the stunning fists, absolutely wailing away on enemies. In fact... the whole idea is punching an enemy in the head to 'stun' them. Then all of a sudden, you're half way through the entire pack, you've used up all your Stuns/Day. Sorry, can't knock them out / Stun them anymore. I'm going to use open hand and slap the enemies now.

It feels that stunning fist should just be a passive feat thats randomly activated during any attack. And as you progress in rank, it would get a higher probability.
For instance: Lvl 1 - 10 : DC (normal as is), % to hit 5%. Lvl 11 - 20, DC (normal as is), % to hit 7%. Lvl 21 - 30 DC (normal progression). % to hit 10%.
Or something to that affect. Stuns or knockouts should just occur as part of fist fighting.

But hey, just an idea .
Current state is hardcoded into NWN2, and DnD rules are written the way they are, which I agree and support.

[Steve]

If Stunning Fist does not apply because the mob has an immunity of any type—construct, undead, crit immune, mind-affect immune—the Combat Log should report that the mob is immune right after a successful attack.

If the Log isn't reporting this, then something would be extra wrong.

[Muckluck]

If Stunning Fist does not apply because the mob has an immunity of any type—construct, undead, crit immune, mind-affect immune—the Combat Log should report that the mob is immune right after a successful attack.

If the Log isn't reporting this, then something would be extra wrong.

Right, and usually it DOES report this (undead etc). So I'm just confused when it says "Hit", no message about immunity or succeeded save, and still the enemy keeps wailing on you.

[Oreles]

Isn't stunning fist not working vs 'Immunity to Mind effecting Spells' a bug? It's listed as a bug.
PnP Mind Blank and and Prot. From XXX are specific to mind effecting spells only. Being knocked upside the head is definitely not some arcane attempt to alter your perception of reality.

If there was a bug fix on that, after the fact, it would be cool to get a monk feat similar to rouge's Epic Precision: A feat that lets you stun anything the same way they can sneak attack anything. I mean if you can sneak attack a golem why can't you knock it upside the head nice and solid like?

[Arn]

DC for a full WIS monk can easily be 35 and even higher, that is plenty high when you consider they can also use stunning fist for Ki Step and Fiery Fists... On top of this with all the other abilities Monks get, they do not need help.

As players, we can occasionally be our own worst enemies. We want power up after power up, but at some point the power ups render the PvE content impotent and the game ceases to be challenging or fun.

+1

[aaron22]

Monk is a really easy class to play. its cheap and easy and does not need power-ups at all. wholeness is useless, but its is just one of so many bonuses that monks get and so many of them are really useful.

but (there is always a but), the stunning fist should not be countered with prot. from alignment or mind blank. It is a Fort save not a will save. To me that seems like it is a physical attack and does a physical effect. Hardier creatures have a better chance of success against it than frail ones. Just makes sense to me

[Oreles]

I posted a possible work around to this bug in another forum after reading this by the by.

I'm not as experienced on this server, so I suppose I can't really say if this would make monks too strong.

Technically, this isn't about powering up stunning fist at all. It's about fixing prot. from XXX and mind blank so they work as intended. Call it what it is I suppose: debugging two spells.

You still have to hit... and this confers no bonus to hit
They still get a save... and this confers no bonus to the DC
Creatures immune to crits are still immune to stunning. It doesn't work everywhere.

https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=67502

Do players submit fixes here? We could just compile a list of all the mind effecting spells that prot. from XXX and mind blank should protect from and try to write a fix and submit it.