To HIPS or not to HIPS

[Quidix]

I'm finalising a new build, a duelist, so it's a non-sneak melee character - and my question is basically what to do with a 3 level dip where I need to get evasion.

The build already has very good AC (52 AC unbuffed, with CE), decent saves except for will, and good damage.

I think the two best options are either to go for Monk or SD (HIPS). The monk dip would give an additional 6 will saves, 1 fort save and 3 AC - I like this option as it fills the will save gap in build, and makes it close to untouchable in melee.

So, my question! Is HIPS actually useful at modest levels of hide / MS? I'd expect to get c.65, but unlikely it could go much higher as I can't invest many feats / dedicated gear slots to it. I've never played a HIPS character, so struggling to gauge how valuable it is. Comments both on PvE and PvP welcome, tho I do limited PvP.

[Steve]

HiPS is the most winning Feat in the game. You can disrupt castings upon your Toon, even if you don't have zip in the skills of H/MS. And even with a minimal investment in H/MS, you'll succeed against most mobs.

What your proposed HiPS use/state won't do is be very beneficial in PvP against another with good spot/listen.

[Theodore01]

Hips is also the most boring/cheesy feature ingame. It all depends on your playstyle and if you want some challenging gameplay or not.

[chad878262]

We could always replace all versions of HiPS with Rasael's implementation of HiTS...

[Steve]

Hips is also the most boring/cheesy feature ingame.

Also true!

[casadechrisso]

Sidenote - I don't get all the HiPS hate. If you don't look at it from a powerbuilding/PvP standpoint and just think of players who want to have fun exploring the server solo at lower and mid levels, it's extremely useful to have and doesn't have to be cheesy. I almost always start on a new server with at least one sneaker/HiPSter character simply to get around and adventure a little on my own, get to know the areas etc.
HiPS can be a lifesaver and an emergency escape for weaker characters, and I believe originally it was supposed to give weaker character builds an edge, not to be the cherry on top for an already unsanely powerful Tank/rusher. At least that's how I treat it, and believe me I still die enough even with HiPS and high hide/MS. I think the cheesy argument can be made for many feats/classes/builds, it's all about what you make of it. The most cheese I see is from how things are roleplayed, not the mechanics themselves.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Sidenote - I don't get all the HiPS hate. If you don't look at it from a powerbuilding/PvP standpoint and just think of players who want to have fun exploring the server solo at lower and mid levels, it's extremely useful to have and doesn't have to be cheesy. I almost always start on a new server with at least one sneaker/HiPSter character simply to get around and adventure a little on my own, get to know the areas etc.
HiPS can be a lifesaver and an emergency escape for weaker characters, and I believe originally it was supposed to give weaker character builds an edge, not to be the cherry on top for an already unsanely powerful Tank/rusher. At least that's how I treat it, and believe me I still die enough even with HiPS and high hide/MS. I think the cheesy argument can be made for many feats/classes/builds, it's all about what you make of it. The most cheese I see is from how things are roleplayed, not the mechanics themselves.

RP wise HipS is even more annoying, it allows hipster to spy on most characters unpunished since the ONLY way to detect hipster is very high spot/listen, many classes don't even have access to such skills.

p.s. Yes, I am breaking into a HipS thread again just to tell once again how broken this mechanic is

[casadechrisso]

I guess the underlying issue is of a social sort, being teabagged by a Ninja in PvP or being stalked by a weirdo, both is stupid but not an argument for me against HiPS in general, but I guess I'm just coming from a different perspective. There are so many cheesy things in everyday gameplay, I personally hate Haste or people who enter a lowbie area buffed like a christmas tree...

[Kiran]

Hire someone with spot or listen to ensure you are not followed?

Hi, I am Tamzim, local spotter.

Fair prices, fair results!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

You don't even need HiPS to spy undetected.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

RP wise HipS is even more annoying, it allows hipster to spy on most characters unpunished since the ONLY way to detect hipster is very high spot/listen, many classes don't even have access to such skills.

There's more than one way.

[Lockonnow]

Dont change anything about the hips it is up to the people how to play and build they char

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Dont change anything about the hips it is up to the people how to play and build they char

Completely agreed.

[Invoker]

Most complaints about HiPS come from inexperience.

Just like in every other game where people complain about stealth, it‘s a l2p issue.

New players in Dota will cry about Riki and Nyx (barely even touched by anybody decent). New players in GW2 will cry about Thieves (least played class at pro level & most difficult to play, to boot). Nwn should not be that way, given it has zero competition (cooperative game).

And yet, here we are

Reminds me of those chess players saying an opening is „too good“, and remembering the balancing factors only when they try to play it...

HipS has balancing factors, but some people tend to forget that.

[Quidix]

So some people think HIPS is cheese, others think it's fine - not surprised about that.

Now, back on topic, is a modest (max 65) hide / MS enough to make it useful? What's the main uses when not using it offensively, as an escape I take it?