Svirfneblin Bard

[Drow4d20]

I know it isn't a great idea, but I enjoy playing odd class/race combinations. The fun for me is in the challenge of a Svirfneblin Bard itself because there probably aren't many of those around. It would be fun for role playing.

I'm trying to find the best balance for this class/race selection. It has been difficult. The main goal is a "Svirfneblin Bard" and I don't care which classes I have to add to make it work.

The best starting stats I could seem to come up with were 10str, 17dex, 8con, 12 int, 10wis, 14cha (14cha is max starting for svirf).

I am looking at 7Bard>3Rogue>10ArcaneTrickster>10Bard with a crossbow. I considered taking 4 fighter levels 21-24 to increase crossbow damage.

Feats: Curse song, Extra song, Lingering song, quicken spell, point blank shot, rapid reload are the skills I'm sure I want. Gnomes are good at casting illusion spells as racial bonus, so I considered getting greater spell focus illusion. If I do take rogue or fighter levels is practiced spell caster necessary for mostly buff spells?

Skills: Disable devices, hide, move silently, perform, search, tumble, and use magic devices are the skills I would like to use the most. I am not sure if I should dump concentration all together and just avoid melee casting? I will be using mostly buff spells and ranged attacks.

Thanks for any advice guys!

[Drow4d20]

I adjusted ability points to 9str, 18dex, 10con, 14int, 10wis, 13cha
Finishing stats: (22dex) (16cha)

I could use padded armor and cat's grace for maximum dex mod bonus later on this way.

Level Progression Idea thus far: 7bard>3rogue>10arcanetrickster>10bard

I can have 16 cha by my 12th character level and 2nd arcane trickster level.

I could take practiced spell caster (bard) at 12th to help with having taken 3 rogue levels. Is this worth it?

I can finish with Chorus of Heroism at level 30. I decided to ditch curse song and concentrate more on being good party support caster.

Thoughts?

[Sun Wukong]

The problem with a Rogue 3/Bard 17/Arcane Trickster 10 is the lack of consistent use of stealth. You can try running behind corners and such to hit stealth button, but if the line of sight was not broken, you have to run to the next corner and wait out the timer.

Additionally, while high dexterity results in a lot of dexterity based damage with that Master Crossbow Sniper feat, it is a very feat intensive path to take.

The illusion focuses are worthless to you, the bard spell book doesn't have that many offensive illusion spells. You would be better off with spell focus in Enchantment, if you want offensive spells.

And you would want to have maxed out concentration, bard buffs can be breached, and hence you might want to re-apply mirrors and concealment in the middle of combat.


As for your plans of taking fighter levels, fighter helps out with the ranged feats for crossbow. However, this server has 3b20 rule, and you need to have at least three levels in all your classes by level 20. You cannot take fighter levels after character level 20.

Not to mention that since dispels have been fixed on this server, a dispel cast by enemy will use the actual spell level rather than your character's combined hit die. Thus Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Bard 13/Arcane Scholar 10 would only have caster level of 27, which can be managenable, but what is worse is the multiclassing experience penalty. The favored class of Deep Gnomes is Rogue, and since the fighter and bard levels are more than one level away from each other, you will suffer from multiclassing experience penalty.


I think you would be better off with a Rogue 3/Bard 27 build.

Edit: Curse Song is a wonderful party buff. It lowers enemy saves, AC, and so on.

[Drow4d20]

Thank you for your reply.

I have decided it would be best to drop Arcane Trickster all together. It seems too difficult to make a decent svirfneblin bard and have to worry about sneak attack damage and all that. I want to be a great support character. I agree that illusion is pointless too because most the illusion spells bards get aren't offensive. This is my first bard, but I looked at the spells I'd want to use most. I chose greater spell focus enchantment instead.

3 rogue levels would be nice for maxing certain skills, but I was considering going pure bard and using quickcast invisibility instead of hide and move silently. I would max out concentration. I will get every bard song feat I can.

I am thinking ending with 18 dex and 20 cha instead too.

Can you look at this build here please and tell me what you think? It's all complete; skills, feats, and all. Some of the feats near the end I just threw on to fill the space. I'm guessing there are server based feats I will probably want to add somewhere later once I've looked into them.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?289771

[Sun Wukong]

Now, were I to do it, I would go for something like this: http://nwn2db.com/build/?289782

STR is 9 and CON is 11 to make most out of the Belt of Strength. It adds +3 to both stats.

Dexterity is 14 to get most out of a Mithral Chain Mail and regular Chain Shirt.

Epic Inspiration gives +1 bonus to your inspirations on this server. Not to mention that Slowing and Jarring Inspirations should be active with your other inspirations. Inspire Jarring should drop your enemy will saves by -2, which coupled with Mind Fog, should give higher propability of them falling victim to Mass Hold Person.

Note: I would feel inclined to drop Weapon Finesse for either Shield Proficiency, or Clap of Thunder reserve feat. Greater Shout should give you at least 6d6 sonic damage per round.

[Drow4d20]

Awesome! Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of getting a mithral light shield later on and just using a sling for better defense. Bullets with stun ability could be fun if they exist on this server. I am making her more for RP and support though so I'm not concerned about damage as much as like what you suggested, mind fog and mass enchantment spells that are will save based.

I am about to look over your build chart. I was putting more dex to aid with offense, but +2 to attack at end game doesn't seem like a big deal when I'm not going for damage anyways. To be honest the only reason I even took point blank shot is because the underdark is always so dead I end up soloing a lot. I have a level 8 caster cleric svirfneblin who is great for soloing. I'm hoping to make the bard good enough to solo with using use magic devices and using better summoning scrolls (is that possible? I haven't played a bard, but my drow mage on Arelith nwn1 server with umd is able to use spells she couldn't before now. At least I think? I haven't been on in a few months lol)

[Drow4d20]

Looking over your sheet:

So far your AB is much better so I'm digging that.

I also noticed you took hide and move silently. A friend I play with mentioned that when I do finally get to epic areas I'll be food without hips, especially as an archer. He recommended throwing 3 SD into the build. He said quick casting invisibility won't work there because they'll see me anyways. So it seems I will definitely need hide and ms.

On nwn1 you could make use of darkness, quick cast improved invisibility or hips, dispel and destroy everything easily. My shadow mage was great at crowd control. A lot of different spells and mechanics in nwn2 I'm still getting used to. I haven't played nwn2 in like 7 years.

I see you ditched search, disable device, and lowered open lock. Those were the 3 skills I considered a few rogue levels for just to add to my support abilities for parties. Is find traps good enough to avoid traps at least? Is 16 ending in those skills so worthless it's pointless to bother?

I agree with the higher CHA and lower DEX for sure. Would tarnishing my caster levels with 3 levels of sd be worth it for hips? Or should I just stick to full bard?

Is it really better to take weapon finesse? I'm afraid to melee with her lol... But I suppose a light shield and rapier (dagger or short sword if svirfs can't do that) would be nice. Courage and cat's grace would aid in upping my ab.

Trash extra song. Okay cool cuz I wasn't sure about that. I thought because of low CHA I would want it, but I'm guessing I need the higher CHA to unlock epic inspiration. And since I'm going for support caster maxing CHA seems best.

I like your chart a lot more. Just worried if she will hold up as a melee. If I did chose to take point blank shot and use sling and light shield (mithral heavy later? that's spell failure 0% right?) would she hold up just as well? Svirf seem like a run and cast/fire type race as opposed to the fearless charging in of their drow nemesis. But if you think she can handle melee I'll take your word for it cuz you're definitely more knowledgeable of builds than I. Thanks again!

[Sun Wukong]

I also noticed you took hide and move silently. A friend I play with mentioned that when I do finally get to epic areas I'll be food without hips, especially as an archer. He recommended throwing 3 SD into the build. He said quick casting invisibility won't work there because they'll see me anyways. So it seems I will definitely need hide and ms.

You can switch those skills away, if you want. But this server has weekly quests and move silently and hide skills help you move accross the map undetected. You can turn on Inspire Competence to get additional skill boost, on top of the Greater Heroism spell. That should be something like +12-14 to all your skills. Then if you got +20~ from your equipment, you should be able to move more or less unseen.

Basically, depending on what quests you want to do... Going from my memory:

Fetch Duergar weapons - 300 exp
Fetch Duergar ore - 400 exp
Gather corpses - 750+ exp
Find basilisk egg - 2000 exp
Tome for a Necromancer - 1000 exp
Spider Idol, one way or another - 1,100~ exp
Rockrun ore - 500 exp
Rockrun sword - 750 exp
Rockrun missing patrol - 750 exp
Mist lake ore samples - 1500 exp

= 9050~ exp in total

Killing things does make leveling faster, and in the epics you got that Song of Requiem to deal damage, a song that also heals you when you get the Hymn of Requiem epic feat.

But technically you can just do the weekly quests on your own, and then team up with whoever you want to, or are able to since it is underdark.

On nwn1 you could make use of darkness, quick cast improved invisibility or hips, dispel and destroy everything easily. My shadow mage was great at crowd control. A lot of different spells and mechanics in nwn2 I'm still getting used to. I haven't played nwn2 in like 7 years.

Yeah, things are slightly different between games and even persistent servers.

I see you ditched search, disable device, and lowered open lock. Those were the 3 skills I considered a few rogue levels for just to add to my support abilities for parties. Is find traps good enough to avoid traps at least? Is 16 ending in those skills so worthless it's pointless to bother?

Disable device requires Rogue 1, Divine Seeker 3~, or Phantom 7~ in order to be able to disarm traps with higher DC than 20. As for search traps, find traps, traps on this game tend to be massive red squares that block an entire passage way. Often it is impossible to get past without triggering one. Thus healing tends to work better than trap detection.

And as said earlier, the +12-13 you can get to all skills makes that low Open Lock skill usable on this server.

I agree with the higher CHA and lower DEX for sure. Would tarnishing my caster levels with 3 levels of sd be worth it for hips? Or should I just stick to full bard?

Shadowdancer requires 19 dexterity on this server, and two feats. Technically three since you are likely to want that Practised Spellcaster feat as well, erm four since you also lose that extra epic feat. It is a possibility you can go for if you want to drop some things, but I feel content with single class bard.

Is it really better to take weapon finesse? I'm afraid to melee with her lol... But I suppose a light shield and rapier (dagger or short sword if svirfs can't do that) would be nice. Courage and cat's grace would aid in upping my ab.

I just threw the Weapon Finesse feat there since I know many bard players want to stab things. You can switch that feat for Extra Songs too...

According to the wiki bards do get Shield Proficiency. I really thought they didn't.

But as for melee, Mirror Images and 50% Concealment (Improved Invisibility/Displacement) makes you pretty much unhittable in this game. And yeah, the combination of Curse Song (-5 enemy AC), Inspire Courage (+7 with Inspirational Boost Spell and Epic Inspiration), Greater Heroism (+4), and Cat's Grace (+2) would increase your AB to a tolerable level with any +4 light weapon. I think you should be able to reach AB of 44~ this way.

What is lagging behind is the damage output to some extend.

But if you get a +4 EB shortsword with +1d4 extra damage:

1d6 (Shortsword)
+4 (EB)
+ 1d4 (Extra damage)
+ 7 (INspire courage)
+ 1d4 (Sonic Weapon)
= 19.5~ (It is not great, but you got your songs to help you out on that department.)

Enemies with DR can be annoying to kill, but once again, you got bard songs for sonic damage.

Trash extra song. Okay cool cuz I wasn't sure about that. I thought because of low CHA I would want it, but I'm guessing I need the higher CHA to unlock epic inspiration. And since I'm going for support caster maxing CHA seems best.

You also get few more spells from it, along with higher spell DCs and all that jazz.

I like your chart a lot more. Just worried if she will hold up as a melee. If I did chose to take point blank shot and use sling and light shield (mithral heavy later? that's spell failure 0% right?) would she hold up just as well? Svirf seem like a run and cast/fire type race as opposed to the fearless charging in of their drow nemesis. But if you think she can handle melee I'll take your word for it cuz you're definitely more knowledgeable of builds than I. Thanks again!

You can go for ranged too. I know for certain that you can purchase a +4 EB sling with +3 extra damage on top, and get something like +1d4 ammunition too. I think you might end up dealing more damage that way, but special ammution costs--- So there are ups and downs.

Both should work... So you can use a sling too. As for shields, you can also just put a shield away to cast your spells.

[Drow4d20]

I realized I was building in Storm of Zehir and not seeing all of my bard options.

I replaced weapon finesse with point blank shot and replaced quicken spell with rapid shot. There aren't really any low level bard spells worth quick casting other than invisibility.

My level 8 Svirf Cleric has a +2 sling with +1d4 fire damage, zen archery, and +1d8 bullets (I like fire or bludgeoning). At level 8 she has I think +16 to hit with the sling. I don't have room for rapid shot on her chart. This bard gives me a chance to have a bit more fun with the sling.

And I get a shield. So I'm happy about that. It looks like mithral heavy shield doesn't have any spell failure. For lower levels I'll probably use mostly buffs so yeah I can just unequipped.

Now my only dilemma is: Do I drop hide and ms to replace with search and *pick lock?

I don't need to be able to disable devices***, it's just rogue is my favorite old school class so I feel inclined to take every rogue skill always on every character even if I don't need it lol... "Damn your magic! I disable traps, pick locks, AND sneak attack!" probably going to do a svirf or drow arcane trickster build after I max these 2 out

Svirfs can cast invisibility as a racial bonus and bards get the spell. I've done most of the quests you listed and invisibility works for those and since I'm not going for HIPS it seems I don't "need" hide and ms. They would be a nice bonus. Spotting and disabling traps is a good support skill set to have, and it seems very much so on this server.

[Drow4d20]

This is what I got now and I think I like it. http://nwn2db.com/build/?289771

Now to delete the bard and remake her lol

thanks a lot!

[Sun Wukong]

You should leave both Tumble and Spellcraft at 30. You gain no further mechanical advantage beyond that point.

Additionally, this server does not have 'Song of the Heart' - so you could replace that with Able Learner feat, since you have cross-classed some skill. Able learner means that you only need to spend one skill point instead of two. It doesn't work on first level, or whatever level it is taken, since you select skills before feats.

Level 1: Able learner
Level 3: Point Blank Shot
Level 6: Rapid Shot
Level 9: Curse Song
Level 12: Lingering Song

[Drow4d20]

I did consider able learner before for those skills and yeah I got lazy with the end of the skill point distribution to be honest lol... I knew maxing those skills was somewhat pointless. Just didn't feel like sitting there and figuring out which skill points to put where and when lol...

Based on what you've mentioned about my cleric I am considering the RCR thing and giving her xp to my bard. I end up following drow around and being their support most of the time, and they do like healing, but abjuration seems useless and I really don't like evocation. Necromancy is cool I guess. I have to think on this.