ESF Abjuration and ESF Conjuration. Sling and shield (point blank and zen archery). She's level 8 so far, but I'm thinking ahead.
Can I take epic gate on a hierophant level? I couldn't find an answer on wiki or forum specifically, but I'm guessing I can. the class isn't included on nwn2db so I'm using 1 barbarian 5 rogue levels and using sneak attacks as hierophant ability references lol... It is confusing, but it works.
I am maxing conjuration and abjuration ESF. Augment summoning or Arcane Defense Abjuration? This is probably an opinion based preference, but I'm new to the server and would like to hear some experienced player's opinions because I've not been to epic areas. +2 against dispel is nice for a cleric, but summoning a creature already buffed doesn't hurt either.
Should I take just 6 levels of hierophant and just get the +3 HD, keeping my 1 bonus cleric feat? 7 levels of hierophant seems pointless, am I right? OR should I take 8 hierophant and get healing power to double my healing spells (I am a conjuration cleric after all) and ditch the bonus cleric feat? With the bonus cleric feat at level 23 I can end with 28 wis base, 32 with owls wisdom, and still add the +3 HD from hierophant.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?289780 this is the chart
Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
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Drow4d20
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Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
I just realized trickery isn't as good in nwn2. I wanted improved invisibility.
I'm from nwn1. I will probably need to reroll and get earth and luck domains because she has racial invisibility already. +1 universal saving throws and +1 ac would just be better I think. I don't use grease and I don't plan on using confusion (which was improved invisibility: invisibility+concealment!) and I definitely don't plan on using feint. I was hoping to get those rogue skill boosts to open all the locked chests you guys have at lower levels lol...
Am I right about this or should I just keep Trickery domain?
I'm from nwn1. I will probably need to reroll and get earth and luck domains because she has racial invisibility already. +1 universal saving throws and +1 ac would just be better I think. I don't use grease and I don't plan on using confusion (which was improved invisibility: invisibility+concealment!) and I definitely don't plan on using feint. I was hoping to get those rogue skill boosts to open all the locked chests you guys have at lower levels lol...
Am I right about this or should I just keep Trickery domain?
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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samb123
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
Well, here's the Domains that BGTSCC has: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Domain
Trickery domain is really only good if you intend to have high bluff. Darkness is good, due to the Blind Fight feat: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Blind_Fight . The domains, as a rule, tend to be situational and/or depend on your build.
Trickery domain is really only good if you intend to have high bluff. Darkness is good, due to the Blind Fight feat: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Blind_Fight . The domains, as a rule, tend to be situational and/or depend on your build.
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Ilzsa Murnyethara, tiefling and "Hexmage"
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
Svirfneblin have terrible CHA so I dumped it entirely. Bluff seemed pointless at that point. I will consider darkness and bluff for my drow cleric which will be a battle cleric, not caster.
Quick casting invisibility could be cool sometimes at lower levels, but by epic levels I think I would rather just have the extra +1 universal and +1 ac. It also gives me the option to cast freedom of movement a spell circle lower which is cool and may be more useful in epic areas than trying to quick cast invisibility and run when I'll have greater sanctuary then anyways (assuming that exists in nwn2 lol) *edit* It doesn't... Lol...
Quick casting invisibility could be cool sometimes at lower levels, but by epic levels I think I would rather just have the extra +1 universal and +1 ac. It also gives me the option to cast freedom of movement a spell circle lower which is cool and may be more useful in epic areas than trying to quick cast invisibility and run when I'll have greater sanctuary then anyways (assuming that exists in nwn2 lol) *edit* It doesn't... Lol...
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
Also, on this server you have to pick deity appropriate domains. You can see some here: viewtopic.php?f=444&t=65705
As for Cleric/Hierophant, who has gone for Epic Spell Focus Conjuration... You could just go for a Cleric 15/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10 build. The Thaumaturge PRC gives you some summon related perks, and you basically just need some skill point investment.
What I do not understand is the Spell Focus in Abjuration. Cleric spell list has very limited selection of spells that actually benefit from it. You would be better off with spello focus in Evocation (clear majority of clerical DC based spells) or Necromancy (boosts that Harm DC, which is doubled with Hierophant's Blast Infidel).
As for Cleric/Hierophant, who has gone for Epic Spell Focus Conjuration... You could just go for a Cleric 15/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10 build. The Thaumaturge PRC gives you some summon related perks, and you basically just need some skill point investment.
What I do not understand is the Spell Focus in Abjuration. Cleric spell list has very limited selection of spells that actually benefit from it. You would be better off with spello focus in Evocation (clear majority of clerical DC based spells) or Necromancy (boosts that Harm DC, which is doubled with Hierophant's Blast Infidel).
Trickery is my favourite domain with or without bluff. The reason is simple, Invisibility makes weekly quest runs easier to pull off. Reach level three, now you can cast invisibility and do fetch quests with little to no risk.samb123 wrote:Trickery domain is really only good if you intend to have high bluff.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
I did pick Smoothhands domains. I chose earth for sure as my main and picked between trickery or luck. Since Svirfneblin get invisibility as a racial spell it seems superfluous to have trickery for a spell I don't really need.
I'm level 8 and can solo umberhulks so far. I've been with a party that was killing driders and basilisks and didn't die, though a drider mages did almost get me once.
I'm from a server on nwn1 where spell focus feats actually do things. Like add bonus protection with shield or open a warded area or teleportation ward area that disables enemy mages from being able to teleport away.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Feat_changes#Spell_Focus_Feats
I've also noticed that dispel sucks in nwn2 and is area of effect only, whereas in nwn1 it can target a single creature and can strip more than one spell or target an area removing the best spell from each failed rolled creature.
The goal was to be a caster that used dispel, dismiss, and purge invisibility, have high saves against dispel (which is important on Arelith), and could survive by slinging bullets from behind her strong summons. It's a svirfneblin I rebuilt from Arelith actually. If I remember correctly she was able to fit ESF necro, abjur, and illusion which all have dope spell focus bonuses, and her domain allowed her to cast phantasmal killer from darkness. The spell darkness. Which did a lot on nwn1, but I'm guessing everything has darkvision in the UD of nwn2 so darkness is probably not as useful...
If nothing in epic areas is going to be dispelling me then yes I would not bother with abjuration focus at all. They really trashed abjuration on nwn2 so badly that I almost just want to buy nwn1 enhanced and go back to Arelith. But I will keep trying this out and see how it goes.
I know how to power build. I do. I am more so into role play when I play neverwinter. I play guild wars 2 and mobas and spend all my time grinding and power building. So when I play neverwinter I think "hey, how can I make a character that seems realistic and is a decent build but not OP?" so I tend to stick to 1-3 class max and make sure they're justifiable through role play. When I played this server 8-10 years ago I built a druid/monk svirf that was so over powered they told me it had to be deleted. She had over 40ac at like level 7 or something ridiculous. From what I've heard those 2 classes are no longer allowed to be together and I see they nerfed my svirfs by making them a +2 level adjustment and took their +4ac down to +1...
Because I know how to power build and because I know what everyone uses and what is common, I try to make builds that are good but unusual or uncommon. I love abjuration, enchantment, illusion, and necromancy schools most. I absolutely hate evocation; it is power builders wet dream. I know what hellball is. And I think greater ruin might be evocation too or maybe transmutation idk.
The problem with power building is it causes people to obsess over the grindy aspects of the game and less about role play and what a character may or may not actually do. Like there are build charts I could pull up and be like "come on dude... There's no freaking way that guy traveled across all of Faeraun to learn all of that. That's freaking ridiculous." even with the 3 levels before 20 no OP rule. One thing I've noticed so far on nwn2 is less role play, at least in the underdark. Everyone wants to rush to level 30 and be a god, and for what? "So we can do it again in a different way..." lol...
I'm level 8 and can solo umberhulks so far. I've been with a party that was killing driders and basilisks and didn't die, though a drider mages did almost get me once.
I'm from a server on nwn1 where spell focus feats actually do things. Like add bonus protection with shield or open a warded area or teleportation ward area that disables enemy mages from being able to teleport away.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Feat_changes#Spell_Focus_Feats
I've also noticed that dispel sucks in nwn2 and is area of effect only, whereas in nwn1 it can target a single creature and can strip more than one spell or target an area removing the best spell from each failed rolled creature.
The goal was to be a caster that used dispel, dismiss, and purge invisibility, have high saves against dispel (which is important on Arelith), and could survive by slinging bullets from behind her strong summons. It's a svirfneblin I rebuilt from Arelith actually. If I remember correctly she was able to fit ESF necro, abjur, and illusion which all have dope spell focus bonuses, and her domain allowed her to cast phantasmal killer from darkness. The spell darkness. Which did a lot on nwn1, but I'm guessing everything has darkvision in the UD of nwn2 so darkness is probably not as useful...
If nothing in epic areas is going to be dispelling me then yes I would not bother with abjuration focus at all. They really trashed abjuration on nwn2 so badly that I almost just want to buy nwn1 enhanced and go back to Arelith. But I will keep trying this out and see how it goes.
I know how to power build. I do. I am more so into role play when I play neverwinter. I play guild wars 2 and mobas and spend all my time grinding and power building. So when I play neverwinter I think "hey, how can I make a character that seems realistic and is a decent build but not OP?" so I tend to stick to 1-3 class max and make sure they're justifiable through role play. When I played this server 8-10 years ago I built a druid/monk svirf that was so over powered they told me it had to be deleted. She had over 40ac at like level 7 or something ridiculous. From what I've heard those 2 classes are no longer allowed to be together and I see they nerfed my svirfs by making them a +2 level adjustment and took their +4ac down to +1...
Because I know how to power build and because I know what everyone uses and what is common, I try to make builds that are good but unusual or uncommon. I love abjuration, enchantment, illusion, and necromancy schools most. I absolutely hate evocation; it is power builders wet dream. I know what hellball is. And I think greater ruin might be evocation too or maybe transmutation idk.
The problem with power building is it causes people to obsess over the grindy aspects of the game and less about role play and what a character may or may not actually do. Like there are build charts I could pull up and be like "come on dude... There's no freaking way that guy traveled across all of Faeraun to learn all of that. That's freaking ridiculous." even with the 3 levels before 20 no OP rule. One thing I've noticed so far on nwn2 is less role play, at least in the underdark. Everyone wants to rush to level 30 and be a god, and for what? "So we can do it again in a different way..." lol...
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Tsidkenu
Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
Clerics actually get a few DC Abjuration spells that are worthwhile, although some depend on domains. Whether they justify the Spell Focus Abjuration feat is another question.
General:
Dismissal (4th level) - Receive a bonus/penalty to your DC by subtracting the enemy's hitdice from your CL and adding/subtracting the difference to your DC.
Banishment (6th level) - Ousiders and summons in AoE must make a will save or be sent to their home plane.
Reflect Pain (6th level) - Enemies who fail a fort save take 1/2 the damage they dealt to you that round.
Hilater's Misdirection (7th level) - Enemies who fail a will save cannot attack you.
Reveal Thyself (7th level) - Polymorphed, shapechanged or wildshaped creatures in the AoE must make a Dispel Check or be forced into their natural shape. Creatures with innate shapechange abilities (eg. doppelganger, druid) must then make a will save or be prevented from changing form again for round/CL.
Greater Reflect Pain (8th level) - Enemies who fail a fort save take all the damage they dealt to you that round.
Mass Reflect Pain (9th level) - Enemies attacking the caster or allies within 15 ft of the caster must make a fort save or take 1/2 the damage they inflicted that round.
Hilater's Greater Misdirection (9th level; Good Domain) - As per Hilater's Misdirection, but at 9th level DCs.
Sanctuary (8th level; Protection Domain) - As per 1st level Sanctuary, but at 8th level DCs.
And if I may add my comments? The true extra power of the hierophant class comes from utilising Divine Spell Power (+Master of Energy) to boost your caster level. A svirf is never going to be able to take advantage of that due to their immense CHA penalty. This tactic also applies to boosting your personal buffs to be beyond dispelling. Just something to consider.
General:
Dismissal (4th level) - Receive a bonus/penalty to your DC by subtracting the enemy's hitdice from your CL and adding/subtracting the difference to your DC.
Banishment (6th level) - Ousiders and summons in AoE must make a will save or be sent to their home plane.
Reflect Pain (6th level) - Enemies who fail a fort save take 1/2 the damage they dealt to you that round.
Hilater's Misdirection (7th level) - Enemies who fail a will save cannot attack you.
Reveal Thyself (7th level) - Polymorphed, shapechanged or wildshaped creatures in the AoE must make a Dispel Check or be forced into their natural shape. Creatures with innate shapechange abilities (eg. doppelganger, druid) must then make a will save or be prevented from changing form again for round/CL.
Greater Reflect Pain (8th level) - Enemies who fail a fort save take all the damage they dealt to you that round.
Mass Reflect Pain (9th level) - Enemies attacking the caster or allies within 15 ft of the caster must make a fort save or take 1/2 the damage they inflicted that round.
Hilater's Greater Misdirection (9th level; Good Domain) - As per Hilater's Misdirection, but at 9th level DCs.
Sanctuary (8th level; Protection Domain) - As per 1st level Sanctuary, but at 8th level DCs.
And if I may add my comments? The true extra power of the hierophant class comes from utilising Divine Spell Power (+Master of Energy) to boost your caster level. A svirf is never going to be able to take advantage of that due to their immense CHA penalty. This tactic also applies to boosting your personal buffs to be beyond dispelling. Just something to consider.
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
To be honest I would like to see a role playing server step up and impost a 2 class max only server rule. This is a role playing game. You're supposed to play as a role and aid a party. Not be a soloing god that gets to level 30 to just do it again. It's fun to be a part of an ongoing world and interact with others without thinking "how can I know in my mind that I can kill literally every player I meet" lol...
I'll rebuild my cleric with necromancy since illusion is also crap in nwn2... But then I'll probably run into the fact that everyone and their mother has protection against death spells, protection against negative energy, and there's probably no way to spontaneously convert spells like inflict wound or harm... I'm actually thinking of trashing this cleric entirely and just giving the XP to my bard. I do not like clerics in nwn2 at all. I may like an evil drow cleric (evil/darkness/trickery) more. But shadow summon is trash and they probably didn't do anything to evil domain to make it worth taking and travel domain probably doesn't give you haste, and haste probably does not make spells cast faster as if quicken spell...
I'll rebuild my cleric with necromancy since illusion is also crap in nwn2... But then I'll probably run into the fact that everyone and their mother has protection against death spells, protection against negative energy, and there's probably no way to spontaneously convert spells like inflict wound or harm... I'm actually thinking of trashing this cleric entirely and just giving the XP to my bard. I do not like clerics in nwn2 at all. I may like an evil drow cleric (evil/darkness/trickery) more. But shadow summon is trash and they probably didn't do anything to evil domain to make it worth taking and travel domain probably doesn't give you haste, and haste probably does not make spells cast faster as if quicken spell...
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
She is a caster cleric; Wisdom based, right? Hierophant would add to her wisdom based caster levels, right? Or am I totally missunderstanding the point of the class? A friend recommended it to me.
All of my caster clerics have dumped CHA. Even drow. But hierophant is new to me. Those abjuration spells are all decent, but would they hold up against a mage? Does arcane defense not help against disjunction? Since I made a cleric that is conjuration and abjuration she is more for healing, summoning, buffing, and dispelling, dismissing, purging invisible, etc. again I am not trying to make a god mode cleric that can run around throwing hell balls and powerful evocation spells like every other cleric ever. I want something unique that parties will appreciate having around. "Oh cool she just dismissed the summons and dispelled all the enemies. Let's cut them down while she heals us"
All of my caster clerics have dumped CHA. Even drow. But hierophant is new to me. Those abjuration spells are all decent, but would they hold up against a mage? Does arcane defense not help against disjunction? Since I made a cleric that is conjuration and abjuration she is more for healing, summoning, buffing, and dispelling, dismissing, purging invisible, etc. again I am not trying to make a god mode cleric that can run around throwing hell balls and powerful evocation spells like every other cleric ever. I want something unique that parties will appreciate having around. "Oh cool she just dismissed the summons and dispelled all the enemies. Let's cut them down while she heals us"
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Tsidkenu
Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
CL helps against the 'Dispel' component of Disjunction, but not the breach component. Mords automatically strips 6 spell protections, and then rolls 1d20 +CL (max +30) vs 11+CL to strip the remainder.
CHA hierophants can use (Advanced) Divine Spell Power to expend a use of Turn Undead and utilise a Turning Check to boost their effective caster level for a number of rounds equal to their wisdom modifier.
The formula is as follows:
1d20 + CHA mod +3 + (+4 if you have hierophant Master of Energy feat).
Table for Turn Check result is as follows:[th]Turning Check Result[/th][th]Caster Level Bonus[/th]
[tr][td]1-3[/td] [td]-3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4-6[/td] [td]-2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7-9[/td] [td]-1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10-12[/td] [td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13-15[/td][td]+1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16-18[/td][td]+2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]19-21[/td][td]+3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]22-24[/td][td]+4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]25-27[/td][td]+5*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]28-30[/td][td]+6*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]31-33[/td][td]+7*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]34-36[/td][td]+8*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]37-39[/td][td]+9*[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]40-42[/td][td]+10*[/td][/tr]
*Hierophant's Advanced Divine Spell Power feat allows the roll to exceed +4, with a maximum cap of +10.
Thus a CHA Turner-based cleric can theoretically reach CL 43 (30+3 hierophant spell power +10 Advanced Divine Spell Power), which even mords dispel component will have difficulty tearing apart. Mords still has its irresistable 6 spell breach component, tho, so no matter what Mords is going to eat your face every time.
CHA hierophants can use (Advanced) Divine Spell Power to expend a use of Turn Undead and utilise a Turning Check to boost their effective caster level for a number of rounds equal to their wisdom modifier.
The formula is as follows:
1d20 + CHA mod +3 + (+4 if you have hierophant Master of Energy feat).
Table for Turn Check result is as follows:
Thus a CHA Turner-based cleric can theoretically reach CL 43 (30+3 hierophant spell power +10 Advanced Divine Spell Power), which even mords dispel component will have difficulty tearing apart. Mords still has its irresistable 6 spell breach component, tho, so no matter what Mords is going to eat your face every time.
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
So if I am making a cleric/hierophant don't go svirfneblin basically lol... A drow cleric would probably be more within my interests. I would probably choose necromancy for summoning and some damage and evocation for offensive spells that necromancy wouldn't be useful for. I do like giving clerics Evard's Black Tentacles, but the spell has a tendency to not be good for parties lol...
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
I think I'm RCRing this for my Svirfneblin bard, which I know will also suck in comparison to other bards lol... I refuse to make another monk based svirfneblin and I'm burnt out on drow, though I do enjoy Shammath. It's tempting to build a drow cleric and maybe try and establish a lolthite house, but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't go anywhere lol
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
I gotta ask... Why does it say "gain access to various invisibility spells" for Trickery domain, when they seem to only gain 1; invisibility... Greater invisibility looks like it's the same as improved invisibility, but doesn't seem to come with trickery anymore. Confusion sucks and if I'm not mistaken will effect my summons and party members.
They gave svirfs bad domain choices. Why would a svirfneblin bother taking protection domain? I'll be honest that it's a domain I've never bothered to take before. Aren't their caster levels based on wisdom? Cha seems pretty necessary for protection domain.
Maybe offer a custom domain "Illusion" that offers them invisibility, mind fog, phantasmal killer, and shadow shield or something. They hate drow who are notorious necromancers, and they favor illusion school. They took away their +4ac so it isn't like shadow shield would make them anymore overpowered by level 7 with their limitations as a cleric anyways. I would even take death domain if I could just to have fun with phantasmal killer even though the summon is probably trash like it is in nwn1
I just don't see how to build a good svirfneblin cleric without going for evocation when svirfneblin favor illusion.
They gave svirfs bad domain choices. Why would a svirfneblin bother taking protection domain? I'll be honest that it's a domain I've never bothered to take before. Aren't their caster levels based on wisdom? Cha seems pretty necessary for protection domain.
Maybe offer a custom domain "Illusion" that offers them invisibility, mind fog, phantasmal killer, and shadow shield or something. They hate drow who are notorious necromancers, and they favor illusion school. They took away their +4ac so it isn't like shadow shield would make them anymore overpowered by level 7 with their limitations as a cleric anyways. I would even take death domain if I could just to have fun with phantasmal killer even though the summon is probably trash like it is in nwn1
I just don't see how to build a good svirfneblin cleric without going for evocation when svirfneblin favor illusion.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Tsidkenu
Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
Click here for the current list of domain abilities and spells.
Click here to see which clerics are permitted which domains. From that list of gnome deities you can take Baravar Cloakshadow for the Illusion domain if you truly desire.
You can get really good mileage out of Spell/Greater/Epic Focus Illusion on a cleric now with that domain.
Click here to see which clerics are permitted which domains. From that list of gnome deities you can take Baravar Cloakshadow for the Illusion domain if you truly desire.
You can get really good mileage out of Spell/Greater/Epic Focus Illusion on a cleric now with that domain.
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Drow4d20
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Re: Svirfneblin Cleric/Hierophant Help please? :P
Wooooah! Awesome! Thank you! I had no idea these existed. I tried looking for domain changes and possible spell focus feat changes on the wiki and here, but couldn't find any. This changes everything. There IS an Illusion domain! 
sorry for getting ranty. I'm just trying to get accustomed to nwn2 instead of 1. I really do like the server a lot. It looks friggin awesome
sorry for getting ranty. I'm just trying to get accustomed to nwn2 instead of 1. I really do like the server a lot. It looks friggin awesome"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."