Monks!

[Wintermute]

Hi all,

Looking to create a monk - probably pure level 30 monk. Just wondering what these are like at higher levels in PvE and how they go in PvP? I'm not new to BGTSCC and I've heard monks are pretty good, but I just can't see how they can get through some higher end epic content and how they could go well in PvP. Do they need a lot of consumables? If anyone has any PvE and PvP tips for me (monk related) that would be great.

I love the lore of the class and I usually like trying to take as many levels of that class as possible ... so I'll probably be trying to avoid any cheesy power dips.

Anyone have any advice?

[Steve]

Monk 30 with maximized Wisdom and the feat Intuitive Attack (WIS to AB along with AC plus the Monk unarmed DMG progression is killer).

Keep up your CON and take Steadfast Determination. Take Fiery Fist for extra dmg. Take Blazing Aura after 21 WIS (or whatever BGTSCC lowered the Req. to).

Pretty much, with content on BGTSCC, any combo of Monk 20 plus Intuitive Attack survives very well, even in the Epic Content Areas.

Of course, if you really want to solo the Server, you'll need to invest in UMD skill for using scrolls and potions, and that means only 16 UMD unless you multiclass and then take Able Learner feat.

[Arn]

Since my monk usually avoids conflict with living things, I'm not sure how well they do in PvP, but I suspect they're not amazing. A F/FB/WM could probably cut down a monk in seconds, and a monk's AB isn't good enough to hit certain high-AC builds. A fully buffed caster would be able to tank a monk's attacks with ease, and would thus have plenty of time to deal with the 40 SR. A Wisdom monk's Spot should be good against sneaks, but be careful about Death Attack paralysis anyways.

But against epic undead in PvE, I have never had a more effective character. These guys can solo the entire Vault of the Dead with just a bit of preparation. A pure Wisdom monk can get decent AB and has good AC. Throw on Fiery Fist and Blazing Aura, and the damage becomes decent, too. Their SR can also come in handy. The 40 SR can often resist the dracolich's Hellball, and sometimes even Chaos's Vampiric Feast. However, you will still want to have a set of Fortitude gear for epic necromancer death spells. Those are pretty much a monk's biggest weakness in PvE. Also, I agree with UMD, especially so you can use Death Ward wands to protect yourself against level drain. Grab ranks in Heal, too. Yes, you can only get 16 ranks as a monk, but the Wisdom score should be good enough to make it effective nonetheless.

Again, my monk doesn't usually fight living things, so I can't be sure about other PvE areas. But I suspect Wisdom monks would be similarly effective in other PvE areas. You wouldn't be soloing the Frost Giant King or anything like that, but you should be pretty good otherwise.

[chad878262]

Taking a race that gives bonus to either WIS or DEX (or both if you don't mind playing in the Underdark as a Deep Gnome) and going M25/SD5 is a strong option. DEX 19 plus max WIS to get Fiery Fists/Blazing Aura, HiPS AND Epic Dodge makes the Monk extremely tanky without giving up much in the way of damage or attack bonus. This can be done with an Aasimar, Tiefling, Wood Elf, Moon Elf, Grey Orc or Halfling relatively easily so there are plenty of options. Honestly even a Human would work, but be more difficult. Start with 17 DEX, 16 WIS, increase DEX at 4 and 8 then all other bumps go to WIS. However, Monks are not really feat starved so I would rather take a race that allows me to start at 18/16 or 16/18, for better spread of stats.

It's not 'full' monk, but mostly pure and having HiPS and Epic Dodge is awesome sauce.

[Deathgrowl]

DEX 19 (...) AND Epic Dodge

Epic dodge needs 25 dex.

If you want epic dodge monk, you'll have to go weapon finesse, dex style monk.

Monk21/fighter4/shadowdancer5 is a good choice, for instance.

[chad878262]

DEX 19 (...) AND Epic Dodge

Epic dodge needs 25 dex.

If you want epic dodge monk, you'll have to go weapon finesse, dex style monk.

Oh yea, forgot about that... still gets HiPS.

You can still get both epic dodge and Blazing Aura, but your AB takes a big hit (you go Weapon Finesse over Intuitive Attack). IMO, foregoing Epic Dodge is better for more WIS which will give better AB, AC, DC (stunning fist). In any case, I would still say the addition of HiPS makes a strong case for M27/SD3 even if going for max WIS.

Here is an example I threw together of a Grey Orc with Epic Dodge and Blazing Aura. As you can see the stats are very poor due to min/maxing required to get both 23 WIS and 25 DEX. Sills are also poor since after Hide, MS and Tumble you are not left with many points. However, strictly in terms of defense/offense it will be very strong. You can also see how stopping DEX at 19 (required for SD) would allow for much higher WIS and better stat spread for points in STR, CON and INT. Very similar build can be made with a Wood Elf or any other race with +2 to either DEX or WIS.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?291759

[Lanzlo]

Here's the pure monk that I'm trying out now that was featured here a while ago. So far, it's working out well.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?115647

Could use Fortitude and Reflex gear, but end game seems solid.

[Nyeleni]

You can buy a belt with extra stunning attacks in the epic shop. I would take ki step instead of it or improved critical. That is very useful.

The rest is very similar to my monk. Even being of the Order of the Broken One and Aasimar.

[qwertyh88]

If going pure monk, be sure to tap into monk of long death lvls for those extra AC and saves against deaths. It will help you a lot. (I had to learn it the hard way and RCR at epic lvls to fit in long deaths lvls. Be sure to grab all your long deaths lvls before hitting Epic Lvls. or else you will lose out on bonus feats)

Ki Step is god sauce on monks.

[Wintermute]

The way I read MotLD description was it doesn't stack with monk levels ... so you lose out on:

SR progression
Flurry progression
High saves to all
Fist damage
stunning fist progression
maybe more?

To gain 3 AC, which is really only 1 AC because you don't get monk AC bonus at levels 25 and 30.

Is this not how it works? Or do you get everything a monk 30 gets plus the benefits of MotLD?

[Tsidkenu]

MotLD is not a PRC. It is a monk kit. Consider all MotLF levels as full monk levels in terms of calculating bonus epic feats etc, but remember you will miss out on adamantine fist if you take MotLD.

[Wintermute]

So what about if I took MotLD after 16 levels of monk and just went M30 (with 10 levels of MotLD kit progression). That should mean I get all monk abilities, with benefits of MotLD and no drawbacks? Do you still need to qualify for the kit? (e.g. skills, alignment). Also, how are monks of the long death viewed, especially in the Underdark, where I'm planning on playing? Is there a stigma surrounding them like blood magic or undead use?
Finally, anyone found any bugs that'd make this kit not worth taking?

[chad878262]

I tested this last year and updated the wiki at that time. It really does probably still need more testing, but overall if you are going 'pure' monk you don't lose anything by going M16/MotLD14, for example. The majority of Monk abilities are progressed.

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... Class_Kit)

[qwertyh88]

On wiki it reads:

"-No bonus feats." So I am taking that to mean I must grab all my MotLD level before hitting epic or I lose out on monk bonus feats...

Can someone confirm that?

[Tsidkenu]

Ignore it. Wiki is wrong on this point. All MotLD levels are Monk levels and bonus feats apply at levels 25 & 30.