Types of AC question

[Hammer_Song]

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone knew what TYPE (Armour, Deflection, Shield, Natural or Dodge) the following AC boosters are?

Heavy armour optimisation line of feats.
Divine shield (I think this one is dodge?).
Armour Skin.
Luck of Heroes.
Improved Combat Expertise.
Shield block (from Man at Arms)
Shield specialisation bonus.
Tumble.

[Valefort]

Heavy armour optimisation line of feats, divine shield, shield block, shield spec : dodge
Armour Skin, luck of heroes, combat expertise : untyped (consider it additions to your base 10 AC)
Tumble. : dodge (but not counting towards the +20 dodge AC cap)

[Hammer_Song]

Nice! Thanks for the quick reply Valefort!

[chad878262]

It should be noted that this becomes important for certain types of builds that can reach the dodge cap (Bard/Blackguards with Divine Shield plus Chorus of Heroism and Inspire Defense with +4 Dodge Boots = + 8 (CHA) + 4 (CoH) + 5 (ID) + 4 (Boots)=21).

It should also be noted that sneak attacks or 'flat footed' means all Dodge AC is set to zero, so those things that are applied to dodge AC do not help against pesky HiPSers. Not saying this is necessarily the right way it should work, but when AC bonuses are set to Dodge they are being set to not work against sneak attacks. If it makes folks feel any better Expose Weakness also removed Dodge AC, thus does not help land sneak attacks.

[chad878262]

It should be noted that this becomes important for certain types of builds that can reach the dodge cap (Bard/Blackguards with Divine Shield plus Chorus of Heroism and Inspire Defense with +4 Dodge Boots = + 8 (CHA) + 4 (CoH) + 5 (ID) + 4 (Boots)=21).

It should also be noted that sneak attacks or 'flat footed' means all Dodge AC is set to zero, so those things that are applied to dodge AC do not help against pesky HiPSers. Not saying this is necessarily the right way it should work, but when AC bonuses are set to Dodge they are being set to not work against sneak attacks. If it makes folks feel any better Expose Weakness also removed Dodge AC, thus does not help land sneak attacks.

Uncanny dodge though.

Agreed... too often overlooked.

[aaron22]

i thought uncanny dodge just provided the dex bonus if caught flat footed. dodge bonus and dex bonus are the same?

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Uncanny_Dodge

The character retains his Dex bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.

[Valefort]

The fix to uncanny dodge is practically as broken as the original version, just in other ways.

[chad878262]

Yeah, technically even with improved version it's the combination of class levels that advance sneak attack vs class levels that gave uncanny dodge. Making prcs that grant uncanny dodge only valuable if they're for a base class that grants it. However in NWN2 it's character total levels.

[Hammer_Song]

Yeah, technically even with improved version it's the combination of class levels that advance sneak attack vs class levels that gave uncanny dodge. Making prcs that grant uncanny dodge only valuable if they're for a base class that grants it. However in NWN2 it's character total levels.

Wait, so ANY level 30 character with improved uncanny dodge can't be sneak attacked?

Also, while we're going slightly of course ... does immunity to sneak attacks (either via spells, feats, etc) prevent the sneak damage or the sneak 'to-hit' advantages like flat-footedness? And how do feinters fare in all this? Does improved uncanny dodge for example, stop sneak attacks from feinters?

[Valefort]

Uncanny dodge negates feint entirely, even if you're blind as a bat.

[chad878262]

Yeah, technically even with improved version it's the combination of class levels that advance sneak attack vs class levels that gave uncanny dodge. Making prcs that grant uncanny dodge only valuable if they're for a base class that grants it. However in NWN2 it's character total levels.

Wait, so ANY level 30 character with improved uncanny dodge can't be sneak attacked?

Also, while we're going slightly of course ... does immunity to sneak attacks (either via spells, feats, etc) prevent the sneak damage or the sneak 'to-hit' advantages like flat-footedness? And how do feinters fare in all this? Does improved uncanny dodge for example, stop sneak attacks from feinters?

Not exactly. A character with Improved Uncanny Dodge cannot be flanked - thus cannot be flanked, except by a sneak attacker with 4 more levels than them. Thus if you have Improved Uncanny Dodge you cannot be sneak attacked. Thus a Feinter cannot sneak attack someone with Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Uncanny Dodge is supposed to simply allow you to retain DEX to AC when caught flat footed. You still lose Dodge/Tumble AC and could still be flanked. However, it doesn't work that way on the server. (or anywhere else that I know of.)

[Hammer_Song]

So ... a level 27-30 character with improved uncanny dodge can't be sneak attacked under any circumstances? I'm thinking here pc's with classes like dwarven defender or barbarian.

[Rudolph]

Doesn't Epic Precision overcome Sneak Immunity via Improved Uncanny Dodge? I thought I read that somewhere but could be mistaken...

If it negates really all feinting attempts, that makes specialized Feinters pretty much unviable, doesn't it?

[Steve]

If a PC has IUD but is Stunned or immobilized or prone (?), they should be able to be sneak attacked.

There are probably other tactics to overcome IUD.

[Valefort]

Try it out but i'm pretty sure they can't be sneak attacked even in those states.