Need help with a dual wielding sneak build

[all_distorted]

Hello, BG community!

100% RCR period is the best time to consider dusting off old characters and breathing a new life into them

I'm trying to build a dual wielding sneak and here are two builds I came up with:

1. Rogue 19/Fighter 8/SD 3 - http://nwn2db.com/build/?298027

2. Rogue 19/Assassin 8/Fighter 3 - http://nwn2db.com/build/?298056

What I like about the first one is its high AB (from what I gathered, the builder doesn't take into account what type of weapon is supposed to be used, so actual AB will be higher if using short swords).

What I like about the second is its 15d6 Sneak Attack.

Is sacrificing AB in favour of additional Sneak Attacks actually worth it? What if I wouldn't be able to even hit stuff?

Also, if I'm not mistaken both builds give 4 Sneak Attacks when hitting from stealth.

Advice, critique, recommendations, life hacks will be greatly appreciated!

[Zkenic]

I would recommend that if you are going full SA, swap 3 fighter in the second build with 3 bodyguard. It nets you the same high BaB, with 10% move speed (which helps when running while waiting for HiPS) and 2d6 more sneak attack. You can get rid of the two defensive twf feats, they aren't too great anyway.

[chad878262]

^^^ Defnitely R19/A8/NWN3 is a solid sneak attack build. You should strongly consider dropping one of your pre-epic feats for Blinding Strike as well. You might consider switching Improved Sneak Attack or SF:Move Silently for Great Dex so you end on an even level. Assassin can cast Cats Grace ~3 or 4 times per rest and there are +4 DEX bracers you can buy if you don't want to use buffs. Strength and CON should both be odd as you can use the Belt of Growth (+3 STR and CON).

[all_distorted]

Thank you guys for the input and food for thought!

[electric mayhem]

If you find yourself with a spare feat even either pre or post epic (as unlikely as that sounds), little known Backstab feat is handy for a +2 AB. Automatic use. Great for Hipsters.
But yeh they look like solid builds

[RedLancer]

Backstab feat is handy for a +2 AB. Automatic use. Great for Hipsters.

You don't have to activate this feat for it to take effect? It's a passive bonus?

[Glowfire]

Subject: Backstab issue
Automatic. Explains it better in the thread above.

[chad878262]

A well built sneak build is rather feat starved and doesn't really need the +2 AB from Backstab. Note the same effect can be had (with an additional +2 to saves) by downing a potion of heroism (at a cost of ~100 gp for 50 minutes of effect). PTWF sneak builds feats by order of importance:

Weapon Finesse
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Blinding Strike
Skill Focus Hide
Stealthy
Skill Focus Move Silently
Luck of Hero's

That's 9 feats....Even a human will only have 8 pre-epic and you can't use your rogue bonus feats since you need Crippling Strike (10), Improved Evasion (13) and Defensive Roll (16). While +2 AB is nice (very nice, indeed) all of the above are likely better selections for a PTWF sneak build.

One argument is you can have 'enough' stealth without skill focus or stealthy feats. However, if you are thinking of PvP (the only place where backstab might be necessary) then I would argue you NEVER have enough stealth.

[Rudolph]

One argument is you can have 'enough' stealth without skill focus or stealthy feats. However, if you are thinking of PvP (the only place where backstab might be necessary) then I would argue you NEVER have enough stealth.

You could get Stealthy from the epic Ninja Cowl, though, and could use a Spiderskin or Camouflage wand (or scroll) to replace SF (Hide) - options that are not available for Move Silently.

I was wondering if anyone who has experience with Blinding Strike knows about how effective it is PvM. Are there many mobs with immunity to it? And how high would the DC need to be to be reliable? Would you give up 2 DC points and SA dice in the following dedicated Blindstriker in order to take Expose Weakness?
http://nwn2db.com/build/?298577

[Kiran]

If you do have gold, don't get stealthy feat as the epic ninja hood covers that for you, freeing up a valuable feat.

[chad878262]

I was wondering if anyone who used Blinding Strike extensively knows about how effective it is PvM. Are there many mobs with immunity to it? And how high would the DC need to be to be reliable? Would you give up 2 DC points in the following to take Expose Weakness?
http://nwn2db.com/build/?298577

Blinding Strike is quite effective. However, it has a 45 second cooldown after activating it (~8 1/2 rounds) making it a poor option to rely upon. The biggest issue with your build is no HiPS, so you will be relying on environment to use Rogue Hide in the Shadows ability (kudos!)

You are getting 18d6 sneak dice (11 from Rogue, 2 from assassin, 2 from NWN, 3 from feats) and you have 21 rogue levels so your DC will be: 10 + 18 + 4 (1/5 Rogue levels) + 6 (1/5 Character level) = 38 at level 30, effective DC 40 with Blackguard Aura.

Personally, I would say you are better off with R19/A8/NWN3 which would only lose Blackguard Aura and gain HiPS which is very good defense when environmental conditions are not in your favor.

As to the question about Expose Weakness, it is not the end all, be all feat for sneak attackers because the AC malus is to dodge AC which is set to zero when you sneak attack. The bleed damage is still very nice (20 per tick for DEX 30) and is more damage than you would get from a couple of improved sneak dice feats so still a better choice, but not the end of the world if you want bigger numbers from your sneak attacks.

If you do opt for more assassin levels you can leave DEX at 26 since Cats Grace will have 3 casts / day and a decent duration. This will give you 3 points to add to INT for more skill points and a bit better death attack DC.

[electric mayhem]

If Assassin and want the death attack to be a showcase ability, i highly advocate getting that DC as high as you can, in any way you can.

As for the Stealthy Feat. Yep on the hood. It's also available on a set of Boots that regularly appear on the auction.: AC+2, Bonus Feet (pun intended): Stealthy, Rapid Retreat 3x day.
If you're lucky enough to find an AC+3 version of these, all the better

Expose weakness is awesome for a High dex build. That bonus bleed damage ticking over is nice. Coupled up with Invisible Blade levels, even more so.
Heh, and if you are unarmed and using the Bloodfist Gauntlets (DC24 wounding), theres even more bleed damage. Not sure this will proc with the InvisBlade Bleeding Wound ability though, (requires a "light weapon" to proc, whether fist qualifies or not *shrug*).

[Tsidkenu]

On Hit Wounding will proc whenever the save is failed, causing bleeding at 1 point per round (think negative regen). The bleed damage does not stop until the target receives 1 point of healing or dies. Physical DR will block it, so like Invisible Blade it is a mostly useless gimmick in epic levels as everything seems to have at least 1 point of DR.

[electric mayhem]

hehe, like Monk DR. By the time you get it, all the mobs you continue to face can bypass the DR anyway.

[Lockonnow]

well a true warrior do not Sneak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpyezvNC_c4