Suggestions for new dungeons etc.

[chad878262]

Hey all,

Nothing is promised or should be expected. Posting this as an interested player wanting new-ish area's to go adventure in. So what's the purpose here?

Well, eventually (hopefully?) we'll have a server split and room to add more area's. As stated in my suggestion thread based on my experience as a new player I noted that once you hit level ~11 the experience starts to get repetitive (i.e. you need to go to your available areas within your CR range many times which makes for a boring leveling experience). One of the things I have noticed though is there are multiple area's where new dungeon entrances could be 'found'. This means without adding any new outdoor areas we have many options for caves, dungeons, etc. which could offer new opportunities to adventure in.

My suggestions are specific to some surface area's I've noted as I travel, but that is because I haven't spent much time in the Underdark since my return. UD players can feel free to offer their own suggestions. My hope is that interested Area Builders can utilize this thread to gain inspiration for what they might want to build.

So...My suggestions/examples.

- High Hedge: There is a cave here which based on the area would be perfect for a CR ~11 or 12 cave system.
- Xvarts: Already a popular grind spot, but again there is a cave that could be a small place to explore in the CR 14-16 range.
- Trollclaws Ogre Stronghold: Several places that *look* like they could lead to a lower level, but area's are collapsed/inaccessible. Could extend the current CR or increase it by 1 and add a new level.
- Field of the Dead: Several crypts could be made to have additional levels of various CR.
- Road between Beregost and Nashkel: Could open up a cave system or dungeon where the Wyverns are (CR 15-17)
- Nashkel Mines: There is a portal behind the pit fiend which could be made to open a 'pocket plane' of devils. This could be a way to bring 'Avernus' back, but instead of Avernus it is a pocket plane or some such thus not being so cringe worthy RP-wise of 'taking a day trip to the hells' and instead being something more appropriate?
- Nashkel Gem Mine: There is what appears to be a cave going deeper that doesn't currently go anywhere which could be used as an expansion for low-epic CR.
- Reaching Woods Gnoll Cave: Could expand on the CR ~23 content in that area.

In addition, for many of these I know at least one DM who's expressed interest in working with Area Builder's to build out a series of RP events related to new area's being opened to act as an IC story for why this new, dangerous area has become available as well as drum up OOC player interest in the new area before it goes live. This of course means more fun for the Area Builders, DMs and Players!

So what would some others like to see? Any area's that you always thought "ya know, I wish that cave actually included a transition that I could enter to explore it..." Personally I am most interested in getting new area's for CR11-27 since those are the level ranges where dungeons and adventure areas become very repetitive. In my perfect scenario no character would need to explore a dungeon more than 3 or 4 times in the experience of leveling from 1-30, but I don't feel any changes are needed to how XP is gained so much as (once server splits) new area's should be made available to allow for varying degree's of challenge (both solo and party required/strongly encouraged) while a player progresses their characters story and mechanical progression.

[yyj]

These are all good ideas.

I will hijack this thread also to post an idea, that has been used in other games but can be used here.

Is to make all the server bosses have a random drop key item that when all the keys are collected from different bosses around the server, you can use them for a one chance to go with a party of 6 people to fight a very very strong boss that you can only have this one chance to beat unless you collect more keys.

[Tanlaus]

In the upperdark there are caves in Kro’s labyrinth and Kro’s decent that currently go nowhere.

Blackrock has a few standing structures that may or may not be shuttered guild houses, I haven’t found anyone who seems to know. Anyway one in particular has a wizard’s tower look to it.

In the underdark are several cave entrances in the Drider Wilds and Wild’s Decent that go nowhere...

And a similar portal behind a similar pit fiend under the duregar compound.

The hardest part of leveling in the UD is, especially as you get into epic territory, there’s so few places to go.

My suggestion would be to make the dungeons you suggested in the trollclaws area function like the ogre caves there with entrances from above and below.

[chad878262]

Is to make all the server bosses have a random drop key item that when all the keys are collected from different bosses around the server, you can use them for a one chance to go with a party of 6 people to fight a very very strong boss that you can only have this one chance to beat unless you collect more keys.

An interesting concept that at least *someone* on BG knows how to do since they used a similar concept in the Sharpteeth Orc caves where having an item from a nearby dungeon plus an item from the sharpteeth caves allows you to gain access to an otherwise inaccessible area.

And a similar portal behind a similar pit fiend under the duregar compound.

Yep, and both portals could go to the same pocket plane, allowing for another area that those interested in interacting / adventuring with Underdark/Surface PCs together could be allowed to interact/explore/RP/PvP/whatever.

The hardest part of leveling in the UD is, especially as you get into epic territory, there’s so few places to go.

Agreed, and having leveled one drow to 29 and another to 25 (basically by weekly quest/loot runs) I can personally say I have zero desire to ever do again. With level adjustments and the fact that it is so much smaller than the surface the Underdark could double in size and it would still get repetitive at mid-to-high levels. Could certainly use some love, but I just don't have the patience to go explore it again. Maybe sometime I'll take my level 29 around just to document the area's more fully and give some more suggestions (or you could do it for me )

My suggestion would be to make the dungeons you suggested in the trollclaws area function like the ogre caves there with entrances from above and below.

This would most likely be for DMs to decide. On the one hand I very much see the disparity of places for Underdarkers to go vs. Surfacers. On the other hand for every enjoyable (sometimes cooperative, other times antagonistic) experience I have had in the Upperdark both on surfacers and on underdark PC's I've had another that was super frustrating (PvP-baiting epic level 30 PCs just sitting in a CR 16 area waiting to pwn a level 16 PC for the lulz). Now, one could argue this happens anyway both on the surface and UD (higher level toons sitting in Cloakwood trying to PvP level 7 PCs), but it is far less common than in the Upperdark in my opinion. So I suppose I understand why Server leadership would want to avoid too many areas where crossover happens since it can lead to griefing. My opinion is going to those area's is options so have at it, let it be a place where folks looking for antagonistic rp and/or pvp can go. I've said before the Upperdark is someplace that actually does make sense as a place to open up more for Wild West type of "no rp out - pvp"....just make it known that it is the wild west and if you go there, no complaints are going to be heard unless someone is using exploits etc. If Johny PvP'd Mary and now Mary is upset, tough cookies, don't go there. That being the case, I'd rather the Upperdark be expanded upon and then kept as like the one and only place where PvP rules are more lax, if that is a common desire. It follows the BG mantra of supporting as many styles of gameplay/RP as possible, while containing it to a given area and basically telling players if you go there, don't complain cuz no one wants to hear it.

As much as I can totally understand and agree with the desire for those that prefer the Underdark to have more areas to explore, I also have seen enough of the few who ruin it for the rest to understand why it is the way it is today.

[Tanlaus]

I have both surface and UD toons, and have often run into the other side in the upperdark, especially Kro’s. I’ve only come back to the server in the last year and a half or so, but I’ve never had an issue with unwarranted pvp... or really pvp at all outside of dueling with friends for fun.

Sure, I think the possibility exists, and maybe there was more of that at one time or another, but- at least to me- it doesn’t seem to currently be a significant part of the server’s culture.

I mean sure, I’ve had surfacers react with suspicion and veiled hostility (or sometimes fear) towards my drow, but they were all RP instances where everyone went their own way after.

I wouldn’t even mind the pvp unless it was, as you said, groups of 30s camping areas to PK people trying to level.

Maybe other people have had different experiences than I have recently?

On the one hand I’m more than willing to concede my sample size of one might be completely unrepresentative. On the other- as evidenced by the discussion in the half drow thread- I think the server’s culture, like any culture, changes over time and issues that plagued it in the past might not be as relevant anymore.

All that aside my suggestion is more about saving some work by killing two birds with one stone. It’s certainly not a hill I’m willing to die on.

[zhazz]

Is to make all the server bosses have a random drop key item that when all the keys are collected from different bosses around the server, you can use them for a one chance to go with a party of 6 people to fight a very very strong boss that you can only have this one chance to beat unless you collect more keys.

An interesting concept that at least *someone* on BG knows how to do since they used a similar concept in the Sharpteeth Orc caves where having an item from a nearby dungeon plus an item from the sharpteeth caves allows you to gain access to an otherwise inaccessible area.

Stealing this as the basis for a new area, with a bit of lore added in.

I am using Beholders and Illithids in the below example, since the Surface could use a bit of a scare in that regard!
Obviously they can be substituted for something appropriate to the server lore.

Lore part

The Beholder in the Gnoll Caves is actually a guardian left behind to safeguard the dormant portal in the hidden library part of the Gnoll Caves. It has been left behind by other Beholders to ensure that a great enemy of theirs doesn't escape.

Who might that enemy be? A group of outcast Illithids, who sought to build a new Illithid community close to the surface, where weak-minded mortals would provide ample food and slave labor.

Obviously the Beholders doesn't care for the mortals either, but they were losing their battle against the Illithids, and thus decided to trap the enemy leader by luring it through the portal and render it unuseable. The portal itself is merely a doorway to a one-man prison, wherein the Illithid leader is held in statis.

With their leader now indisposed the Illithids have set up base in a new place, and begun efforts to creating a hive mind brain for their colony.

Plot

Upon defeating the Gnoll Cave Beholder a quest item drops. While it initially does nothing, carrying it around will reveal new hidden areas in places of knowledge, where a piece of lore must be acquired from.

Each area is relatively small. About the size of the upper half of the Serpent Temple before going down into the big hall. Upon finding the piece of lore (skill check?) a host of Beholders materialize, intent on destroying the intruders before they can release the ancient enemy.

As the characters unveil more and more clues the resistance they encounter from the Beholders also increases (CR goes up).

Possible areas, where any such lore could be found:

• Library in the Goblin Mine (north of Beregost)
• Library in the Ogre Stronghold (Troll Claws)
• Library in the Undercity (underneath Baldur's Gate)
• Library in the Serpent Temple
• And more...

Conclusion of the plot

Upon finding and deciphering all the lore (skill checks?) the dormant portal in the Gnoll Caves will become active, provided a character with all the appropriate quest items is near it. Clicking on it releases the Illithid leader, who is angry after its (potentially decades) long imprisonment.

Killing the Illithid has it drop a key, which will unlock the disused library on the hilltop on the island off of Ulgoth's Beard.

Bringing the key there, and unlocking the library awards access to a dungeon full of outcast Illithids, and their many slaves. The place, however, is a gauntlet. Something the characters will rapidly discover, as the key only allows entry, but not escape. The only way to leave the place is to fight through the dungeon and kill the infant hive mind brain.

Only by doing that will the outer door open once again.

[Heretic]

These are all good ideas.

I will hijack this thread also to post an idea, that has been used in other games but can be used here.

Is to make all the server bosses have a random drop key item that when all the keys are collected from different bosses around the server, you can use them for a one chance to go with a party of 6 people to fight a very very strong boss that you can only have this one chance to beat unless you collect more keys.

I want to second this idea. The NWN1 server I used to play on had exactly this where players had to collect shards that would occasionally drop from select high level bosses (that weren't easy to defeat). Collecting all the shards granted the player (and their party) access to a extremely difficult epic area. Though in that design players were allowed to keep their access (just because collecting all the shards was such a PITA)

[Ambaryerno]

Is to make all the server bosses have a random drop key item that when all the keys are collected from different bosses around the server, you can use them for a one chance to go with a party of 6 people to fight a very very strong boss that you can only have this one chance to beat unless you collect more keys.

An interesting concept that at least *someone* on BG knows how to do since they used a similar concept in the Sharpteeth Orc caves where having an item from a nearby dungeon plus an item from the sharpteeth caves allows you to gain access to an otherwise inaccessible area.

Stealing this as the basis for a new area, with a bit of lore added in.

I am using Beholders and Illithids in the below example, since the Surface could use a bit of a scare in that regard!
Obviously they can be substituted for something appropriate to the server lore.

Lore part

The Beholder in the Gnoll Caves is actually a guardian left behind to safeguard the dormant portal in the hidden library part of the Gnoll Caves. It has been left behind by other Beholders to ensure that a great enemy of theirs doesn't escape.

Who might that enemy be? A group of outcast Illithids, who sought to build a new Illithid community close to the surface, where weak-minded mortals would provide ample food and slave labor.

Obviously the Beholders doesn't care for the mortals either, but they were losing their battle against the Illithids, and thus decided to trap the enemy leader by luring it through the portal and render it unuseable. The portal itself is merely a doorway to a one-man prison, wherein the Illithid leader is held in statis.

With their leader now indisposed the Illithids have set up base in a new place, and begun efforts to creating a hive mind brain for their colony.

Plot

Upon defeating the Gnoll Cave Beholder a quest item drops. While it initially does nothing, carrying it around will reveal new hidden areas in places of knowledge, where a piece of lore must be acquired from.

Each area is relatively small. About the size of the upper half of the Serpent Temple before going down into the big hall. Upon finding the piece of lore (skill check?) a host of Beholders materialize, intent on destroying the intruders before they can release the ancient enemy.

As the characters unveil more and more clues the resistance they encounter from the Beholders also increases (CR goes up).

Possible areas, where any such lore could be found:

• Library in the Goblin Mine (north of Beregost)
• Library in the Ogre Stronghold (Troll Claws)
• Library in the Undercity (underneath Baldur's Gate)
• Library in the Serpent Temple
• And more...

Conclusion of the plot

Upon finding and deciphering all the lore (skill checks?) the dormant portal in the Gnoll Caves will become active, provided a character with all the appropriate quest items is near it. Clicking on it releases the Illithid leader, who is angry after its (potentially decades) long imprisonment.

Killing the Illithid has it drop a key, which will unlock the disused library on the hilltop on the island off of Ulgoth's Beard.

Bringing the key there, and unlocking the library awards access to a dungeon full of outcast Illithids, and their many slaves. The place, however, is a gauntlet. Something the characters will rapidly discover, as the key only allows entry, but not escape. The only way to leave the place is to fight through the dungeon and kill the infant hive mind brain.

Only by doing that will the outer door open once again.

I like this. Sort of like a mini-event without needing DM oversight.

[Valefort]

It has to make sense RP wise though, why would such different creatures, most often antagonistic even, share a common belonging and somehow allowing to go in another place ? I mean we can always blame a fancy wizard but that's quite far fetched.

[Ambaryerno]

I don't think this was meant to be a specific idea, just a general example. It shouldn't be too hard to set one up that fits Lore.

[Steve]

A lot of scripting and dev work goes into an Area that contains a detailed “story” and challenge to complete the adventure in said Area...likely to never be repeated!

Balance between investment and actual use must be considered. There are already plenty of Areas on the Server that are challenging, have required Skill checks or necessary combos to “complete” the Area, and they are hardly used.

Let’s not ask of the Devs to make Areas that are attempts to replace the Dungeon Master. DMs are a necessary part of the D&D experience, and a essential requirement to a living, permanent world.

What I then would suggest is more Areas that are beautiful but basic, and are maps that DMs can fill out with mobs and treasure, then place a portal in a public Area so that Players can enjoy these “setups” from time to time and generate more RP off the random experience.

[c2k]

I personally do not think this conversation is a reality until a server split happens, which would allow for more areas to be put in the server.

But I think it would be nice to see more dungeons hidden in areas of civilization, whether is a network of thugs, or a something more sinister. Its could be in a series of houses, or a the sewers, maybe even alleyways. Perhaps secret within an old barn.

[Lockonnow]

I hope we will get some great underwater areas better then those dms have

[zhazz]

It has to make sense RP wise though, why would such different creatures, most often antagonistic even, share a common belonging and somehow allowing to go in another place ? I mean we can always blame a fancy wizard but that's quite far fetched.

I don't think this was meant to be a specific idea, just a general example. It shouldn't be too hard to set one up that fits Lore.

Exactly. For the example I picked two monster races that are terrifying, though not necessarily lore appropriate.

What I then would suggest is more Areas that are beautiful but basic, and are maps that DMs can fill out with mobs and treasure, then place a portal in a public Area so that Players can enjoy these “setups” from time to time and generate more RP off the random experience.

As long as it's not just more Troll Caves, I'd be happy with such a solution. There are already enough mindless grind places on the surface, and I don't honestly think we need more.

That being said, I would love to see more areas such as the East Chionthar Ruins. Places that feel like an actual home for whatever enemy is in there, complete with hidden areas and minor puzzles.

I personally do not think this conversation is a reality until a server split happens, which would allow for more areas to be put in the server.

But I think it would be nice to see more dungeons hidden in areas of civilization, whether is a network of thugs, or a something more sinister. Its could be in a series of houses, or a the sewers, maybe even alleyways. Perhaps secret within an old barn.

I am hoping that once the server split happens that we will get some of the old places back. Such as the Misty Forest, and the West Chiontar River. Preferably also a few new RP areas.

So what would some others like to see? Any area's that you always thought "ya know, I wish that cave actually included a transition that I could enter to explore it..." Personally I am most interested in getting new area's for CR11-27 since those are the level ranges where dungeons and adventure areas become very repetitive. In my perfect scenario no character would need to explore a dungeon more than 3 or 4 times in the experience of leveling from 1-30, but I don't feel any changes are needed to how XP is gained so much as (once server splits) new area's should be made available to allow for varying degree's of challenge (both solo and party required/strongly encouraged) while a player progresses their characters story and mechanical progression.

How about adding in the Gnoll Stronghold, which is supposed to be near Nashkel?

The area might even already be in the game files. I seem to recall it being used as the Troll Claws East several years ago, except populated by Trolls and Ogres. I believe the Ogre Fort, which is now in the Troll Claws West, used to be the interior of the stronghold in the Troll Claws East. Or am I misremembering things from 6 years ago?

Repurposing the area by changing spawns to Gnolls, shouldn't be too big of a hassle, I think?

[chad878262]

I believe area builders/developers should have (and do have) the artistic freedom to come up with the ideas for how they want to build their areas, so long as they stay within the confines of established forgotten realms and server specific lore. I see no reason folks should not put their ideas here or elsewhere though as it could spark a similar idea for any area builder reading the thread, should they so chose to do so.

How about adding in the Gnoll Stronghold, which is supposed to be near Nashkel?

The area might even already be in the game files. I seem to recall it being used as the Troll Claws East several years ago, except populated by Trolls and Ogres. I believe the Ogre Fort, which is now in the Troll Claws West, used to be the interior of the stronghold in the Troll Claws East. Or am I misremembering things from 6 years ago?

Repurposing the area by changing spawns to Gnolls, shouldn't be too big of a hassle, I think?

This is fantastic. Right now the issue with Nashkel (not really an issue, but something that makes it a bit less visited perhaps) is that unless you flag it as your home location it requires a fairly large number of transitions to get to (or teleport). Then once you get there, you have one decent sized dungeon that is a good place for level ~19 parties (Nashkel Mines), an outdoor 'grind' area for level ~16 or so (Hill Giants), a one level dungeon that is very difficult at CR 22 (Ice cave/gem mine), a small CR 23 cave (Lizard Cave), a smallish CR27 area (Frost Giants) and then you have Speartop and that cave with the Lich in it. Not really a 'problem', but if you are ready for Nashkel Mines there is far more content if you stay to the North. Adding another decent sized dungeon such as the suggested Gnoll Fortress for CR 19 or 20 would be a great way to give more content to encourage going on a trip to adventure in and around Nashkel starting at around level 20.

That's the idea (at least from my perspective) is to attempt to look at the areas we have and what additional adventuring locations would make sense to add either from a lore perspective or from the standpoint of there being existing caves or other things that would indicate the PCs may be able to explore an area, but there is currently no transition. While I fully understand and agree it is moot until server split (I did say that in the first post), I hope there are some area builders out there getting excited for the split that will be working on locations so that we can get some pretty decent quantity and excellent quality areas to explore.