Arcane Trickster Not Working as Described

[TymoraPitBoss]

The sneak and death attack damage only applies to damaging ranged touch attack spells, not ranged touch attack spells as written. This is incredibly misleading and fundamentally changes the build. Not to mention that it says arcane trickster includes death attacks, but doesn't apply the paralyzation DC for some reason nor does it specify that it doesn't. Could this ever be updated or could I granted an RCR? I realize this is more a roleplay presige class since it is weaker by comparison to others, but I didn't realize the mechanics would just be completely unavailable to me since I am a shadow adept as well and use non damaging ranged touch attack spells and have assassin levels that have become half useless once discovering there is no real synergy. Thanks in advance.

[Valefort]

What are those ranged touch attack spells that do not deal damage ? I can think about energy drain and enervation but that's about it.

Otherwise Arcane trickster description states that "You apply your sneak attack damage to Ranged Touch Attack based spells. This ability is from spells cast from the players spell book only and does not work on spells cast from items such as wands and scrolls", damage is not effect, so no paralyzation.

[TymoraPitBoss]

None of my ranged touch attack spells work including ray of enfeeblement, feeblemind, enervation, avasculate (does damage) or energy drain. I've tested them with quickened and empowered in undetected invisibility/hide and made sure I always had the initiative. Those are pretty much all of my main spells besides a few buffs, invisibility related spells to do RTA sneak in the first place and a couple dc spells.

What are those ranged touch attack spells that do not deal damage ? I can think about energy drain and enervation but that's about it.

Otherwise Arcane trickster description states that "You apply your sneak attack damage to Ranged Touch Attack based spells. This ability is from spells cast from the players spell book only and does not work on spells cast from items such as wands and scrolls", damage is not effect, so no paralyzation.

[Valefort]

Ok, for avasculate it seems a fix is in order, feeblemind is not a touch attack so the description needs an update, I'll also update AT's decription to clarify it's only damaging spells indeed.

[TymoraPitBoss]

What about me? What about all the time I put into this build under false pretense?

Ok, for avasculate it seems a fix is in order, feeblemind is not a touch attack so the description needs an update, I'll also update AT's decription to clarify it's only damaging spells indeed.

[TymoraPitBoss]

Why not just add sneak dice to all ranged touch attack spells as described?

Ok, for avasculate it seems a fix is in order, feeblemind is not a touch attack so the description needs an update, I'll also update AT's decription to clarify it's only damaging spells indeed.

[Blackman D]

What about me? What about all the time I put into this build under false pretense?

Ok, for avasculate it seems a fix is in order, feeblemind is not a touch attack so the description needs an update, I'll also update AT's decription to clarify it's only damaging spells indeed.

rcr if you feel the need? or adapt and overcome

only two options there are usually, wait for the change and go from there

[Valefort]

Why not just add sneak dice to all ranged touch attack spells as described?

It's a good question as these spells were intentionally set apart

I can only guess. Avasculate, energy drain, enervation, ray of enfeeblement are ray attack spells so I suppose the RTA is there to see if the ray hit the target at all, however hitting a vital spot doesn't change the effects of the ray, there's nothing tangible to make a sneak attack with, unlike orbs which are physical projectiles.

Aside from these considerations these ray spells are already very strong, it might have played a part.

What about me? What about all the time I put into this build under false pretense?

Aren't you a bit overly dramatic ? That's for the DMs to see anyway, the differences between your expectations and what's in game are small, and you were already told those spells didn't work with Arcane Trickster.

[MadSeer]

however hitting a vital spot doesn't change the effects of the ray, there's nothing tangible to make a sneak attack with,

Those are my thoughts on it as well. I never once thought these spells would trigger the Sneak Attack for the same reason they can't trigger Critical Hits: they don't deal any damage and getting hit on the pinky or right in the spleen wouldn't make them any different, while getting hit with an orb of fire on the hand or right in the butt might uh... leave a different feeling.

[TymoraPitBoss]

If you intrepretted it as dramatic then that says something about you. My time is valuable, not sure about yours. I can't really get philsophical about butt orbs verses drainings rays to the face either as I'm just letting you geniuses know that what you put down is misleading and there is no record of anything stating otherwise. Obviously you have some vague sense that the ranged touch attack spells are too powerful to have them be considered ranged touch attack spells as stated. Either way, it's tens of hours of time that I was hoping wouldn't just get blown off whimsically such as, "rcr and aDaDpT," and "you're dramatic," as I'm just at your mercy by stating that it wasn't me who made the careless error. No offense was meant.

[chad878262]

Back handed, sarcastic remarks aren't liable to win you any friends there bud.... more bees with honey than vinegar and all that.

RCR is free up to level 10 and increases 5%penalty per level from 11-20 for just such reasons. It's a free to play server which is supposed to encourage players to choose their classes for the rp and not just mechanical uberness.

This said, yeah trying to mix a DC prc like shadow adept with an rta blaster doesn't make a whole lot of sense. As to ray of enfeeblement, enervation, etc i agree with valefort that it wouldn't make sense for them to apply sneak dice since you're not causing any actual damage. It'd be like gating sneak attack damage when you toss a jar of angry hornets or ninja dust at someone... nope

[TymoraPitBoss]

Once again, the class said it applied to all ranged touch attack spells. I don't want to be your friend, guy, but thanks for the honey dripped compelling observations, lectures n all that.

For anyone else who feels inclined to round about demand that I kiss ass after I was slightly attacked for pointing out a decent mechanical inconsistency, lack of descriptive record or otherwise reitterating it: don't bother, I got the message.

If you feel the need to imply that I'm otherwise trying to power build or am selfish for bringing this up or asking for a possible rcr, you can also keep it as I understand the general sentiment. I've been playing rping consistent worlds since early nwn and have run a server and dmed before. This isn't new and I understand what you're doing. Thanks.

[Planehopper]

Locking the thread. Questions answered, fixes where necessary will be done.

Let's all try the honey approach, or take a break from the forums if barbs and sarcasm are impossible to avoid.

Thanks