Post here for Chest issues with loot/gold

[chad878262]

Hello BG!

I'm sure based on Discord and other discussions there are various feelings about loot and gold on this server, please note THIS THREAD IS NOT TO DISCUSS LOOT/GOLD AVAILABILITY, BUFFS or NERFS!!!

With that said, the updated mechanic could do with some explaining so that our players can give valuable feedback to the Dev and QC teams. I hope you will all understand that we prefer not to provide the exact details as too much meta takes away from the In Character experience you all get to enjoy. However, I will give some general details both so that you can understand the mechanic (even if you don't agree with it) as well as hopefully provide valuable troubleshooting to assist us in locating any chests that specifically should be adjusted for the area. So the goal of this thread is to first give you the details below and second ask that you post feedback as you play if you find chests which appear to be lower tier than the area CR dictates.

So first and foremost, here is the gist of how the chest system works. There are 6 tiers of chests on the server (Tier 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). The higher the tier, the higher the CR the chest goes in. However, over the past decade + different builders/staff teams have had different ideas of how tiers should be placed around the server. Those that were here when some chests couldn't be looted at all once you hit a certain level will recall that as well.

The way that the new mechanic works is that if you are above a certain level, chest tiers are downgraded up to and including being reduced to giving just a small sum of gold. So if you are in an *APPROPRIATE CR AREA* and you find that the drops appear to be really bad compared to prior to the update please post here and let us know your character level, the area you were exploring where the chest is located if possible (unless it's an area with random chests) and any other details you thought odd about it. This will assist the Dev team in locating any chests that are of an inappropriate tier for the area they are located in.

Just to reiterate, this thread is not to argue over the change, feel free to use an existing thread or create a new one if you would like to do so. This *IS* a thread to identify chests that need to be updated to appropriate tier (which by happy coincidence will INCREASE the chance of getting more gold or good loot from that chest going forward). While the change does reduce (in some cases significantly) the loot/gold for characters in areas that are too high for their CR, by addressing the chest tiers in all areas to ensure they are not too low we also increase the gold/loot for PCs going to areas that are more appropriate to their CR. In addition it should be noted that we believe you could be in an area up to ~5 CR below your level and the chests should be dropping normal loot with no changes. Even going somewhere ~7-10 CR below you should have limited to no impact. Going to a CR20 area as a level 30 PC may result in some of the chests being downgraded a tier or two, but you should not be getting just a pittance of gold in those areas. If you are, post here as that is exactly what we are trying to find/fix!

Thank you all for supporting the initiative, looking forward to your feedback!

[ajcolt]

The serpent hills chests in the temples gave single digit cold to 20 some max. The Yaunti and Naga are all mid 20s for level.

[Planehopper]

Please provide a list of 'appropriate CR areas' by level so that expectations and troubleshooting are accurate.

[Ewe]

I think it makes total sense for there to be equal reward for equal CR/effort. It felt pretty gamey to farm CR4 and lower zones as an epic level character, not to mention often felt disruptive to legitimate players in that zone.

Without seeing some kind of stats and distribution on these tiers it's hard to tell how balanced it is. Most of the feedback I saw on the Discord and from other players was they felt they were not getting the same amount of gp/hour. But it could be an unlucky streak, mismatch of CR and chest, or whatever else, it's hard to tell.

Also, as has been the problem for a while, there's simply not as many areas for higher CR as there are for lower CR.

I'll close by saying I'd love for there to be a dynamic chest system. Like a purple or gold named chest that can spawn for a limited time under some kind of conditions and feels super awesome to open. Maybe it's even a mimic, who knows? CRUNCH (oops I bashed the chest)

[Winterborne]

For reference via the wiki:

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Areas_by_CR

I think anything listed as 20 or higher should be lootable by a party of 30s. I have non-issue with the spirit of the change keeping high level people from rolling through trivial areas in search of gold.

I don't really have a better solution, and I also do not understand how the current system works. I hope it continues to be iterated upon enough to feel rewarding and respectful of player time, and I definitely think "low level areas being run by high level players en masse" should not be a thing.

[Hoihe]

For reference via the wiki:

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Areas_by_CR

I think anything listed as 20 or higher should be lootable by a party of 30s. I have non-issue with the spirit of the change keeping high level people from rolling through trivial areas in search of gold.

I don't really have a better solution, and I also do not understand how the current system works. I hope it continues to be iterated upon enough to feel rewarding and respectful of player time, and I definitely think "low level areas being run by high level players en masse" should not be a thing.

Personally, I'd bump a fair number of the CR15-20 areas to be higher CR, or at least not penalize for it.

Ulcaster being level 16 is... doesn't exactly make sense. It's a puzzle dungeon, followed by a very brutal shadow plane area that can more than threaten level 25+ characters.

Nashkel mine could also do with a bump - considering it has many mobs with almost 40 AB and its epic-grade end boss.

Durlag's I'd also see as needing a CR20+ treatment for all its underground levels, (labrynth 1-2,) considering it's one of the best dungeons suited for epic adventuring, and the challenge even on the tower level is enough to threaten level 20+ PCs. Labyrinth 2 has doppelgangers, mindflayers and drow. Doppelgangers can hit 50+ AC.

[chad878262]

I'll close by saying I'd love for there to be a dynamic chest system. Like a purple or gold named chest that can spawn for a limited time under some kind of conditions and feels super awesome to open. Maybe it's even a mimic, who knows? CRUNCH (oops I bashed the chest)

I like the suggestion Dae, and this maybe deserves it's own thread so it doesn't get lost in here, but I will also toss it out to the Devs to see what they think. Could possibly be a part of Ged's chest randomization system.

Without seeing some kind of stats and distribution on these tiers it's hard to tell how balanced it is. Most of the feedback I saw on the Discord and from other players was they felt they were not getting the same amount of gp/hour. But it could be an unlucky streak, mismatch of CR and chest, or whatever else, it's hard to tell.

Really my goal here is to grab the blatant / obvious culprits. CR is an estimation anyway, so if you are in an area that you feel is difficult/challenging for your character and you open a chest to receive 20 gold or less, go ahead and post it as I would say it is worth a look.

I think anything listed as 20 or higher should be lootable by a party of 30s. I have non-issue with the spirit of the change keeping high level people from rolling through trivial areas in search of gold.

I would agree that is fair, though I honestly don't know if that is the case today so if you are in CR 20-25 areas as a level 30 and things seem off, post it and we will take a look.

Personally, I'd bump a fair number of the CR15-20 areas to be higher CR, or at least not penalize for it.

I don't want this thread to go in to a larger discussion about CR bumps and what have you, if needed you're welcome to open a separate thread to discuss area CRs that you feel should be adjusted. Suffice to say CR is based on party, not individual PCs and outside of a few specific outliers such as the new mine in Trollclaws I think the CR's are pretty reasonable for party based play.

Again, rather than focus on the CR in this thread, focus on the loot you are getting and the level of your PC and feel free to post based on your experience if you believe the area is appropriate for your PCs level. Certainly we may look at area difficulty separately, but right now I'd prefer we address any low hanging fruit that can be addressed by simply changing the chest tier where it is obvious to do so.


Thank you everyone for your feedback thus far. As more area's get mentioned with details of potential chests to adjust I will edit the first post with a listing.

[Steve]

So if you are in an *APPROPRIATE CR AREA*

The CR of Areas listed on the Wiki is for Groups (3-4 toons). How does the new system calculate between being in a Group or being solo? Not to forget to mention that a group of 3-4 vs a group of 6-7 is a yuuuge difference because power doesn’t scale well on BGTSCC (as you know).

[mrm3ntalist]

There are no issues with the changes themselves. The issue is that finally an admin team should provide a clear statement regarding what kind of playerbase it wants. The following statement is obsolete since its inception.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52574

The overall goal of BG:TSCC is to provide a persistent game world that everyone can play in and enjoy. From the hardened role-player to the seasoned monster slayer, we welcome everyone to our collaborative story.

Since way back in the day, changes, nerfs and complaints were made regarding that specific category of players, the seasoned monster players. From changes/nerfs to character feat/skills/spells/gears, to loot restrictions, to monster buffs, to map removals, to "grinding limitations" and finally a complete disregard from the DM team. In my opinion, there is an obvious reason why an admin team does not make such a clear statement - the server population will drop significantly. By keeping this up, they hurt both categories of players since neither is happy with the end result.

The only thing i can say is that for anyone interested in monster slaying , there is an abundance of games that can satisfy their needs. By doing so, one can join like minded communities and form new friendships with players that have the same expectations from a game, thus providing a healthier gaming environment, avoiding this never ending loop of trying to "fix the economy", "fix the balance" etc

Game on!

[Theodore01]

Made a UD loot run with my lv14 svirf.


Here's what he got today from chests:


CR 6 Garth Grottoes 27,26,29,28+2scrolls / 38xp/kill
CR10 Titanfist Mines 29+3items,33+2potion,484+potion,20+2items / 45xp
CR12 Tarpits 4,12,15,22 / 41xp
CR13 Large Crypt 25,21+gem,12+neck,24,865+ +1disguise item, 21+gem / 45-48xp
CR14 North of Tarpits 19,14,23 / 48xp
CR14 Illithid Mine Cavern armor+1,19,26,1117,1134 / 45-50xp
CR14 Illithid Mines 20+14 / 48xp
CR15 Ophidian Tunnels 25+potion,flail+2, 24+ +1item / 47-51xp
CR16 South of Tarpits 24,xbow ab+2+5vsOrcs / 51xp

[chad878262]

Made a UD loot run with my lv14 svirf.


Here's what he got today from chests:


CR 6 Garth Grottoes 27,26,29,28+2scrolls / 38xp/kill
CR10 Titanfist Mines 29+3items,33+2potion,484+potion,20+2items / 45xp
CR12 Tarpits 4,12,15,22 / 41xp
CR13 Large Crypt 25,21+gem,12+neck,24,865+ +1disguise item, 21+gem / 45-48xp
CR14 North of Tarpits 19,14,23 / 48xp
CR14 Illithid Mine Cavern armor+1,19,26,1117,1134 / 45-50xp
CR14 Illithid Mines 20+14 / 48xp
CR15 Ophidian Tunnels 25+potion,flail+2, 24+ +1item / 47-51xp
CR16 South of Tarpits 24,xbow ab+2+5vsOrcs / 51xp

Thanks Theo,
So far I have had feedback on Reaching Woods, Tradeway Gnolls, Orzogoth, Serpent Hills and the list above from Theo. Feel free to post further as you go, but details like what theo gave, or the below I was provided in a PM are more helpful then just saying 'loot seems bad at x' more details will certainly give more reason for dev to take a look. cheers!

providing the below details from an anonymous player as an example of great detail of an area that quite obviously deserves a look. The below isn't just giving a feeling, but specific detail of all chests and what was in them. This allows me and others to see that in this area it appears over half the chests are likelly Tier 3 or lower in an area that probably should have basically all Tier 4 and 5 chests, maybe a couple Tier 3. So as you are adventuring about (or grinding if you prefer) if you get a feeling in an area and can keep the detail of what you get from each chest you open it would be a huge help.

Here's a breakdown of what I found after a run in the Orzogoth, an unknown CR area (although I'd make the case it's CR 26-28), as a level 30.

Chest 1 693 GP
Chest 2 39 GP + Contagion Scroll
Chest 3 47 GP
Chest 4 43 GP + Phenalope + Wand of lightning
Chest 5 58 GP + +1 Crossbow
Chest 6 51 GP + Owls Wisdom scroll
Chest 7 Ring of Fortitude +4
Chest 8 +1 Bracer
Chest 9 53 GP + Strong Tangle Trap

Chests behind the DC 60 and then the DC 70 locks
Chest 10 41 GP + Potion of Elemental Shield
Chest 11 878 GP
Chest 12 33 GP + Alchemists Fire

Chests in Dragon's Lair
Chest 13 Whyte's Morningstar (+1 EB +1 Electrical damage)
Chest 14 48 GP + garnet
Chest 15 +1 crossbow
Chest 16 Gold Ring + 34 GP

[MrSmith]

28 Level Character – Solo.

Cloakwood North-West, Haunted House Level 1 (CR 13)
• Chest 1 – 35 gp
Cloakwood North-West, Haunted House Level 2 (CR 14)
• Chest 1 – 31 gp
• Chest 2 – 29 gp
Cloakwood North-West, Haunted House Level 3 (CR 21)
• Chest 1 – 30 gp
• Chest 1 – 32 gp
• Chest 1 – 33 gp
• Chest 1 – 35 gp
Boss: Chaos, 98 XP Loot Drop: Stein

Fields of the Dead (CR 14)
• Chest 1 – 21 gp
Fields of the Dead – Vault 1 (CR 24)
• Chest 1 – 37 gp
• Chest 2 – 27 gp
• Chest 3 – 29 gp
Fields of the Dead – Vault 2 (CR 25)
• Chest 1 – 21 gp
Boss: Lich (Yellow), 118 XP Loot Drop: 149 gp, Dagger 1d4 Magical, Sickle EB+1

Fields of the Dead – Vault 3 (CR 29)
• Chest 1 – 56 gp
Boss: Crypt Keeper, 118 XP Loot Drop: Empty Wine Bottle, Potion of Bless Weapon (10)
Boss: Valgoth, 123 XP Loot Drop: Book of Seeing, 202 gp

Fields of the Dead – Forth Floor (CR --)
• Chest 1 – 39 gp
• Chest 2 – 57 gp + Scroll of Thorn Skin (30)/ Trap Triggered: 253 points of damage
• Chest 3 – 696 gp/ Trap Triggered: 101 points of damage

[yyj]

Got around 20 gold from wyverns chest on a level 21 character. Is that working as intended? Wyvern still seem to give decent exp at this level.

[gedweyignasia]

There appear to be three issues here:

• There is a bug which sometimes causes chests which should have produced loot to instead only yield a small amount of gold. That should only happen when the player is much higher level than the chest, and is not the intended behavior in many cases that have been reported. This will be fixed in the next update. This issue was fixed on 11/1/2020. (Thanks, Valefort!)
• There are several areas where the chests are giving much lower-tier loot than they should have because the chests were not properly balanced in that area, so the player is over-leveled for those chests. The fix here is to upgrade those chests to provide better loot. This will be an ongoing process as we find such chests. Please continue to report them as you have been here.
• Bashing chests can leave you with a broken item and a pittance of gold. This is the intended behavior, especially if you were ~5ish levels above the area CR and you *crunch* a chest.

[ajcolt]

Graveyard CR 1. In one of the small mausoleums with a coffin container and a cabinent container yielded epic fighter boots and a heavy shield+3.