Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

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Cinnamon
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Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

Unread post by Cinnamon »

Ibrandlin is 1/round level, this is inappropriate for a 6th Circle *Summon, especially one that is hard integrated for Role-Play purposes.


*Because it isn't a Summon Spell, the actual Spell is Create Creature, Abjuration School.


Ibrandlin should be changed from 1/round to 1 or 10m level, besides that, it should be administered to the Animal Companion slot. I'll explain my reasoning below, and why it shouldn't be Cohort Slot.

Found in the 3.5 Manual, these are currently missing:
Breath Weapon (Su): Once every 5 rounds, an Ibrandlin can breathe a 30-foot cone of fire that deals 2d6 points of fire damage to every creature it touches. Affected characters who make a successful reflex save (DC 21) take half damage. An Ibrandlin can use it's breath weapon and it's claw attacks in the same round by using a full attack action. In this case, the creature forfeits it's bite attack in favor of the breath weapon.
This would translate as Knockdown or Wing Buffet: ((I personally think this would be ridiculous to have, and forfeit adding it, just going by the Book here))
Pin (Ex): An Ibrandlin can jump and land on opponents as a standard action, using it's whole body to attack. A Pin attack is effective only against Medium-size or smaller opponents. An Ibrandlin can pin as many creatures as will fit under it's body. (a 10ft by 30ft area). Creatures in the affected area must roll successful reflex saves (DC 21) or be pinned under the Ibrandlin. The Ibrandlin can choose whether or not to deal damage. Creatures that lie still are simply pinned (treat as a grapple attack), while those that move or fight take 4d6 points of damage per round until they escape.
Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire Immunity, double damage from cold except on a successful save.

Firstly, let's get to the Lore Book of Ibrandlin:

TL;DR - Requires an Egg, Holy Oil, 3,000 Gold & Diamond Dust and 7 Hours of Channelling, with a success rate attached.
The spell is permanent once it succeeds.
Primarily, this means that the Spell is really meticulous, and doesn't just "simply" spawn into existence a Creature from thin air.
It takes a Fire Lizard Egg and nurtures it into a new creature, the Ibrandlin.
6th Level
Create Ibrandlin (Abjuration)
Sphere: Guardian
Range: Special
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 7 hours
Area of Effect: 1 fire lizard egg
Saving Throw: None
This spell was developed centuries ago by priests of Ibrandul to facilitate the
creation of fearsome guardians for the temple of Ibrandul located in the Underdark. Ibrandlin are created by magically altering fire lizard eggs to create
the trainable monsters described in a MONSTROUS COMPENDIUM sheet included in the Ruins of Undermountain boxed set. Since the Time of Troubles,
ibrandlin have begun to breed true. As a result this spell is likely to lapse
into relative disuse, given the expense of the spell components.
Casting this spell is a long and arduous process. Those who cast this spell
must prepare themselves with a tenday of prayer and fasting before attempting the casting. The spellcaster must then coat a fertilized, living fire lizard
egg with a mixture of holy oil and diamond dust and perform a seven-hour
ritualistic prayer dance around the egg. Each hour of the dance, the spellcaster must make a Constitution ability check. Failure of any Constitution
ability check results in the complete failure of the spell. The spell can be attempted once again one tenday later on the same egg with new material
components. A second failure kills the unhatched fire lizard in the egg, rendering it useless. When create ibrandlin is successfully cast, the material components are absorbed into the egg and an untrained hatchling ibrandlin
emerges from the egg one tenday later.
The material components of this spell are Ibrandulin holy oil and 3,000
gp worth of diamond bust
Specialty Priests (Darkwalkers)
REQUIREMENTS: Wisdom, Constitution 11
PR IME REQ.: Wisdom, Constitution
ALIGNMENT: C N
WEAPONS: Any
ARMOR: All armor types up to and including chain mail; no
shields
MAJOR SPHERESS: All, elemental, guardian, protection, sun (only the darkness-creating versions of reversible spells), travelers
MINOR SPHERES: Chaos, combat, creation, divination, healing, necromantic
MAGICAL ITEMS: Same as clerics
REQ. PROFS: Animal training (ibrandlin), mining
BONUS PROFS: Blind-fighting, direction sense
• Although his darkwalkers are primarily humans

Furthering from the above point, it requires Animal Handing to even be an Ibrandlin Priest, as you are tasked with raising Ibrandlin specifically, which denotes an Animal Companion, not Cohorts or Summons of any format. They exist as a bred and true sentience.

Additionally, for the sake of balance and not giving a lv.11 Cleric some busted spell:

Making Ibrandlin an Animal Companion, means you can attach it to the *Animal Domain, and by extension, stat it as a scaling companion.

*This means opening up Animal Domain for a mechanical sake, to match the official source material.
It does NOT need to be officially added as a literal mechanic

Ruling:
Cleric Domains
If you are playing a cleric, refer to the thread or wiki for the domains that your character's deity permits. If you pick an incorrect domain for your deity, you will be required to reroll your character to fix it.

Getting back to the original point, the following balance occurs:

When you take Thaumaturge, your Cohort Slot isn't ruined as per rules of Server, also, you lose 5 levels on your Animal Companion, extending more balance.

Secondly, you do not benefit from strictly running Hierophant until you take the associated Feat.

End analysis, you take two Feats - Animal Companion boost for Multi-Class to cover your Thaum loss, if you go Thaum or other classes that do not directly level a Companion, and you must take Hierophant's Animal Companion feat, to cover the 10 levels of that class.

Additionally, you're taking Thaumaturge or other PRCs pretty early, which is cutting even more into your pre20 levels and messing up your Companion's balance, so it's pretty impossible for an Ibrandlin to become OP.
Main Four
Bar, Thayvian Slumdog // Stunraraeliyra, Idealistic Blackheart // Chalk Hart, Sorceress of Amaunator // Joel, Emerald Commoner

Noa,
Laslow,
Gruum,
Truffles, Underdark
Chalice, Underdark
Caspar,
Tracey,
Penelope
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Svabodnik
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Re: Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

Unread post by Svabodnik »

Not to state the obvious, but isn't the lore spell "Create Ibrandlin", while the server-specific spell is "Summon Ibrandlin"? As in, the former is the actual creation process of the creature to raise one permanently, while the latter implies temporarily conjuring up such a creature to aid a devout caster.

Not that summon spells on the server strongly consider all aspects of the pen-and-paper versions in their implementations to begin with. For example, in PnP Create Greater Undead requires 50 gp/HD to create an undead creature as a 1-hour long ritual (with an instantaneous duration, meaning it's permanent and cannot be dispelled), but the creature is uncontrolled and thus the caster requires another means (i.e. Control Undead spell) to seize command of it. The way it's implemented here as a 12 sec/CL summon instead has the spell serve as a longer-lasting but weaker necromantic Gate.

In any case, I imagine a simpler middle ground would be to leave the spell as is, but offer an Ibrandlin as an animal companion option. Would open the door for rangers, druids, and Animal-domain clerics of Ibrandul to have such a guardian as an animal companion for RP reasons, without the headache of handling the implications of an animal companion slot summon being tied to a spell (since that slot is typically utilized specifically for class ability based summons). Would need to be balanced in line with the others, being mindful that if it's kept as a Dragon creature type it would be considerably more powerful than the others - maybe a young variety, closer in nature to a hatchling fire lizard rather than the Gargantuan dragon it's implied to be able to grow into?

EDIT: Should mentioned the obvious that Ibrandul isn't a nature deity nor offers the Animal domain, but being a deity of Caverns I presume may not be too much of a stretch to permit a subterranean nature aspect, and since we don't have the Scalykind domain, Animal may be the next closest thing.
"...I know that kind of man / It's hard to hold the hand of anyone / Who is reaching for the sky just to surrender..." – Leonard Cohen, The Stranger Song
Cinnamon
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Re: Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

Unread post by Cinnamon »

Not to state the obvious, but isn't the lore spell "Create Ibrandlin", while the server-specific spell is "Summon Ibrandlin"? As in, the former is the actual creation process of the creature to raise one permanently, while the latter implies temporarily conjuring up such a creature to aid a devout caster.
Yes, except it's a Domain spell specifically for Ibrandul, much like the others, it is a spell taken from the Books and an adaptation was made, except the adaptation isn't exactly any level of O.K, if we're going to have Ibrandlin, then they should be as they are, or at least a summon that sticks around longer than 1/round level.
In any case...
I feel this is what I have written? I just added additional arguments to make my case. :c

EDIT: Should mentioned the obvious that Ibrandul isn't a nature deity nor offers the Animal domain, but being a deity of Caverns I presume may not be too much of a stretch to permit a subterranean nature aspect, and since we don't have the Scalykind domain, Animal may be the next closest thing.
Yeah I felt this was too obvious and patronising to include in my initial statement of reasoning. Ibrandul is more than capable of having Animal Domain, despite it not being "100% by the book", it's 100% by the mechanics we have at our disposal.

Just add Animal as part of the Cavern Domain, done and dusted, really, if we want to be pedantic.

Edit: Name reason I do argue for Animal Companion, as well, is that there are already Ranger/Druids of Ibrandul on the server, and I wouldn't want to slap them in the face with a change that's exclusive for Priests, when Priests includes Druids on this Server.
Main Four
Bar, Thayvian Slumdog // Stunraraeliyra, Idealistic Blackheart // Chalk Hart, Sorceress of Amaunator // Joel, Emerald Commoner

Noa,
Laslow,
Gruum,
Truffles, Underdark
Chalice, Underdark
Caspar,
Tracey,
Penelope
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Svabodnik
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Re: Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

Unread post by Svabodnik »

Cinnamon wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:57 pmI feel this is what I have written? I just added additional arguments to make my case. :c
I assumed that by saying...
Cinnamon wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:32 am Ibrandlin should be changed from 1/round to 1 or 10m level, besides that, it should be administered to the Animal Companion slot. I'll explain my reasoning below, and why it shouldn't be Cohort Slot.
...you were looking to have the spell summon the creature into the animal companion summon 'slot' (out of the eight functional slots available for a character - Summon, Cohort, Illusion, Copy, Dominate, Swarm, Animal, and Familiar). As in, rather than the Summon Slot that I assume it currently occupies, or Cohort if called by a Thaumaturge, it would remain as a separate spell but instead bring the creature into the Animal slot. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Giving it a bit more consideration, wonder if having a Fire Lizard Hatchling animal companion option could provide more general use for a variety of characters? In addition to the opportunity for the devout of Ibrandul to RP it as a fledgeling Ibrandlin, would give UD-centric rangers/druids another option for a more fitting animal companion for the environment (as most of the animal companions - bears, boars, dogs and the like are definite surface creatures). Moreover, there is precedent in the game in having animal companions that aren't strictly animals, given that spider companions are a thing.
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Valefort
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Re: Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

Unread post by Valefort »

Ok, changing things a bit to be more inline with pnp, 10 minutes per CL, still summon rather than cohort as you can benefit from non-animal domains.

Changing it to abjuration rather than conjuration, therefore conjuration focus feat do not give any benefits anymore. However to give a feeling of animal companion it will scale off of cleric levels + hierophant levels if you take animal companion progression. Capped at 20 HD, with a slight STR, DEX and AC progression as well, lowered its base AC as it was quite strong at teen levels.
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Cinnamon
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Re: Ibrandlin - Requires Changes

Unread post by Cinnamon »

Ok, changing things a bit to be more inline with pnp, 10 minutes per CL, still summon rather than cohort as you can benefit from non-animal domains.

Changing it to abjuration rather than conjuration, therefore conjuration focus feat do not give any benefits anymore. However to give a feeling of animal companion it will scale off of cleric levels + hierophant levels if you take animal companion progression. Capped at 20 HD, with a slight STR, DEX and AC progression as well, lowered its base AC as it was quite strong at teen levels.
Wow! Thank you so so so so much! This is an amazing change! I can't thank you enough, Vale!!! ;-;

We shall do your time proud with RP to last a millenia <33333
Main Four
Bar, Thayvian Slumdog // Stunraraeliyra, Idealistic Blackheart // Chalk Hart, Sorceress of Amaunator // Joel, Emerald Commoner

Noa,
Laslow,
Gruum,
Truffles, Underdark
Chalice, Underdark
Caspar,
Tracey,
Penelope
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