Tax Building in Farmlands

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Ewe
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Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ewe »

I'm really confused. There's no DM, no staff, no announcement, nothing, but we have a new taxation system and tax building in the Farmlands?

Despite BG being founded on a tax revolt from the farmers which is why the Dukes are in power today? It doesn't seem to make any lore sense, and isn't backed up by any ongoing plot, DM notice, or announcement. It's very disturbing.
Tax Revolt
The division of the town by its great wall created a schism between the landowners of Old Town and Balduran's former associates, the captains and other seafarers of Gray Harbor. The Old Towners taxed the carts coming north from the harbor, through Baldur's Gate, which led to the ire of the seamen and their eventual refusal to pay.[42][2]

As their anger turned to action, the smugglers, pirates and merchants of Heapside breached Baldur's gate and stormed Old Town by force. Just before they laid siege to the keep of High Hall, the four most-senior sea captains argued for the farmer-lords' surrender. After a quick vote, a truce was struck between the two parties and the retired captains were installed as leaders, jokingly known as "Dukes", of the rapidly-growing city that was earnestly renamed Baldur's Gate.[42][2]
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athornforyourheart
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by athornforyourheart »

And this is why you guys can’t have things... lol

I think it was just put there to add some style and difference to the map. I don’t think anyone should really overthink this else we should really start dismantling the million other things that make this game seem unreal...

Far as I’m aware there is no plot buildup for this and I’m almost sure by the piece of lore, the tax was more of an import/export type of thing and not so much of a land tax. I could be wrong but I wouldn’t fuss with it..,

The builder who made this only thought to make the game funner for everyone, not to scare people with taxes.
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Ewe
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ewe »

Can it instead be repurposed as a Fist outpost? Instead of a taxman with some precarious maligned verbiage? It's scary as hell. Also, like, my understanding is changes to the world happen because of RP consequences, but this just seems totally random.
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Winterborne
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Winterborne »

I plan to just treat it as having always been there!
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ajcolt
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by ajcolt »

I agree with Ewe. If indeed there is no cannon nor server cannon surrounding it, it's just a big "Bush" in the middle of the road for no reason whatsoever. Maybe not disturbing , but immersion breaking. Like Ewe, I have no problem at all with the building there.

Maybe make it Blunt's new digs? That guy must be making a mint.
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Wade »

Just removing the tax collector NPC and the sign could be the compromise, the building itself is incredible and should totally stay.
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Ariella
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ariella »

A dev made something nice to add more atmosphere, your not actually being charged tax. Having a trade revolt in the past does not mean BG has no taxes, it's a trade city.
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Thaelis »

It's an insurrection. Inter-dimensional shape-shifting tax agents have overthrown the Dukes.
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Ewe
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ewe »

I mean the city itself was founded on the farmers revolting over taxes and the city was famously based on taxing in the docks district of sea vessels as a dock fee. The taxing of caravans into the city doesn't seem to jive with the lore as far as I can tell.
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Rhifox »

Ariella wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:41 pm A dev made something nice to add more atmosphere, your not actually being charged tax. Having a trade revolt in the past does not mean BG has no taxes, it's a trade city.
This. Have people really thought people living in the city *don't* already pay taxes? Really?
The adventure begins with the characters arriving in the northern reaches ofBaldur’s Gate, the Outer City district of Blackgate. They’ve come to the city on Founder’s Day, the celebration in memory of Balduran, founder of the city. It’s also the only day of the year when no one has to pay the usual gate tolls for passage (merchants must still pay taxes on goods though), so people have flocked from the tiny communities strung north and south of the city for the celebration and the chance to visit the city for free.

- Murder in Baldur's Gate (4e)
The Fist earns income, aside from the contract, from its share of the taxes collected at the harbor, Basilisk Gate, and the Wyrm’s Rockdraw bridges.

...

Even though the dukes tax the Outer City and nominally rule the area, they rarely exert control over it.

...

Baldurians have done very well hosteling, resupplying, and taxing such travelers and traders.

...

Although the issue of taxation was put to rest for awhile, the dukes came to see its necessity, especially when raids on the growing Heapside community necessitated the construction of additional protective walls. Thereafter, residents stopped referring to the two districts as “Old Town” and “Heapside” and instead adopted the monikers “Upper City” and “Lower City.” By then sailors had taken news of the city’s struggle to other lands, and the city became known to most of Faerûn as “Baldur’s Gate.”

...

He used a portion of the taxes the dukes collected to pay the mercenaries. The establishment of the Flaming Fist gave Baldur’s Gate considerable standing as a military power on the Sword Coast, expanded the city’s tax revenue, and brought badly needed law and order to the Lower City.

...

Only the Citadel Gate houses no tax or toll collectors, because its use is restricted to the Watch. The gate toll is a trivial amount for anyone of even modest means—a few coppers at most—but it does curtail the comings and goings of beggars and the very poor. Merchants who pass through a gate pay taxes on the goods they bring to market. All these fees are low individually, but so much commerce moves through Baldur’s Gate that transit fees fund much of the city’s needs.

...

Public vehemence against taxation at [Baldur's Gate] sparked the popular revolution that led to the installation of the first dukes centuries ago. Yet now the gate is a collection point for taxes that help fund the city government, because the original Council of Four instituted taxation at the gate soon after the rebellion. The irony of this situation is not lost on the citizens, but it provokes little bitterness; as the saying goes, “The insult to history is history.”

...

"the ubiquitous tax and toll collectors."

...

Image

- Murder in Baldur's Gate (5e)
BG has taxes. The tax station is a great addition, and helps add life to the area.

Is there any other basic fact of life that people think doesn't exist just because it doesn't have a building in-game?
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Ewe
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ewe »

Regardless of whether or not it makes lore sense to be there, there was simply no leading RP to it, no DM knowledge, and no story reason for it to suddenly pop up there in the middle of the farmlands. Some kind of notice or story would have been welcome, and made the sudden change less jarring.
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Ariella
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ariella »

Ewe wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:44 pm Regardless of whether or not it makes lore sense to be there, there was simply no leading RP to it, no DM knowledge, and no story reason for it to suddenly pop up there in the middle of the farmlands. Some kind of notice or story would have been welcome, and made the sudden change less jarring.
Clearly it was built over the past few weeks to replace the old tower. Staging multiple updates to build a tower that services no purpose except for atmosphere is impractical. I am not making Dev's jump through hoops to make small changes to the server such as this tower. Larger changes there will be coming soon announcements. If you don't like the tower I am sorry but it is what it is, the world changes as time moves on.

Also even though it was not required. Almost a month ago viewtopic.php?f=496&t=74544
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Ewe
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ewe »

I'm not saying it's not liked. Just that it popped up out of no where and there's no background given, no one knows how to RP it. Everyone in the Farmlands has been dumbfounded by it that I've talked to and tried to RP about it. There's just no background given, there's no dialogue from the taxman when you try to ask him what's going on.

I mean it took me nearly 2 hours alone to figure out the carpentry tool behind the building was a shaving horse with some missing parts.
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Thaelis
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Thaelis »

Also, the BGTSCC main page now says "High Hunt" at the top. I am incensed that I wasn't given any prior warning or consulted about this change; I don't even know what that means!

Could it perhaps mean you want us to get high on Underdark mushrooms before hunting? Are the Dukes planning to hold an annual hunt for High Elves?

You really should consult us before just making random announcements out of the blue like that!

Disclaimer: Hunting whilst high may result in death or injury
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Ewe
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Re: Tax Building in Farmlands

Unread post by Ewe »

This isn't a joke. The Farmlands is a hotspot for RP. It's one of the most important areas on the server. A little bit of understanding would go a long way here. I feel the staff, particularly Rhifox and Ariella have come across as dismissive and rude regarding this important issue. A paragraph of context as to the purpose of the building and how the taxes are collected and who is taxed there would go a long way to allow us to have the background needed to RP this change.
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