Sorcerer Spell Selection

[Glowfire]

Alright, so... I've looked around and haven't seen anything that stood out as recent or discussing it in more depth.

With the sorcerer changes, it opens up the options a bit. Back when I first made a sorcerer, pretty much every sorcerer had the same spell selection. Since then a lot of new spells have been added. Some I've played with on a wizard but there's been even more spells added... Everyone who I thought knew something about sorcerers are as clueless as me.


What are the 'must have' spells for sorcerers these days?
How efficient are the Bigby-line of spells? They used to be an instant-win and then 'meh'... where are they now?

Likely not looking for DC focused spells. Struggling somewhat with 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 circle slots. Evil aligned PC.

[Lockonnow]

well it is about what player style you wish to play if you wish to play Necromancer then you dont take Divination spell get my point?

[Glowfire]

School of Necromancy? Sure.
Undead summoning spells and other summoning spells? No thank you, that's what PC minions are for...

Also not looking into the shapechange style of play.



For example...
6th - Tiramael's Energy Spheres - is this 5 spheres on a single target, or 5 spheres on however many targets there are, or 1 sphere up to 5 divided on multiple targets...
7th - Dimitry's Final Flare - how effective is the push back, how useful/cool is this spell in actuality?


How do these spells even work? The spell descriptions don't tell me much.

[Louvaine]

I'm not really fond of Sorcerer simply because of having to choose spells and not being able to adapt too much. I will just throw few names around and I hope this helps. I'm including both grindy spells and roleplay spells.

4th circle

Conjuration: Dimension Door, Orb of Acid (or whatever element suits your PC)
Divination: Assay Resistance, Trace Teleport
Evocation: Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm
Illusion: Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer
Necromancy: Enervation, Vampiric Touch
Transmutation: Polymorph Self

5th circle

Abjuration: Dismissal, Lesser Mind Blank, Protection from Petrification
Conjuration: Lesser Planar Binding, Teleport
Enchantment: Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Mind Fog
Evocation: Bigby's Interposing Hand, Firebrand, Sending
Illusion: Glass Doppleganger, Hail of Arrows

7th circle:

Abjuration: Banishment, Energy Immunity, Spell Mantle
Conjuration: Greater Teleport
Divination: Greater Scrying
Enchantment: Nybor's Stern Reproof
Evocation: Bigby's Grasping Hand, Delayed Blast Fireball
Illusion: Shadow Shield, Solipsism
Necromancy: Avasculate, Control Undead, Finger of Death
Transmutation: Ethereal Jaunt

8th circle:

Abjuration: Mind Blank, Protection from Spells
Conjuration: Conjure Metalman, Greater Planar Binding, Lure Shadow Demons, Summon Creature VIII
Divination: Premonition
Evocation: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Polar Ray
Necromancy: Army of Death, Create Greater Undead
Transmutation: Pass Wall

You might notice I consider Bigby's worthwile. I don't think they're very good compared to other niche things you can do, but assuming you don't have tons of summons or polymorph into a dragon you'll find use for Bigby's. At the very least to take some heat off while they tank with their 500 or so HP.

Another thing to point is spell called Shades from 9th circle. I imagine sorcerers use this instead of Premonition, Protection from Spells and Shield.

Hope this helps at least a little!

School of Necromancy? Sure.
Undead summoning spells and other summoning spells? No thank you, that's what PC minions are for...

Also not looking into the shapechange style of play.



For example...
6th - Tiramael's Energy Spheres - is this 5 spheres on a single target, or 5 spheres on however many targets there are, or 1 sphere up to 5 divided on multiple targets...
7th - Dimitry's Final Flare - how effective is the push back, how useful/cool is this spell in actuality?


How do these spells even work? The spell descriptions don't tell me much.

Editing this post to answer what I can!

Tiramael's Energy Spheres makes me think it's one target simply from it's description. My wizard knows this spell, we can totally do some testing (I never used it...).

Dimitry's Final Flare is a spell that makes no sense to me judging by its description. How can caster be pushed away from caster? I heard high opinions of the spell, but personally I cannot imagine it working well. If I'm targetted I'm not going to try to cast offensive spell. I'm casting Invisibility or Dimension Door. That being said my wizard has this spell, we could totally test it.

[Lockonnow]

7th - Dimitry's Final Flare it is cool only one time whan you found out you wish more that it could do

[Rhifox]

If you have Maximize, Laeria's Starbolt is super strong. Great for an Evocation-focused sorcerer (also look at Reignite Evocation).

Whirlpool is also a really good pick for a disable.

[Glowfire]

I appreciate that list Louvaine! Some seem more suitable to be cast from wands/scrolls for a sorcerer, unless going for some flair/flavour (as you pointed out).

How does Bigby 6 and Bigby 7 compare to each other? If you had a choice - which would be the one you'd pick and why? (open question!)

--

Rhifox, my friend...
Laeria's Starbolt sounds neat but it is a good aligned spell. Will it make my evil aligned PC more redeemable?!

[Rhifox]

Rhifox, my friend...
Laeria's Starbolt sounds neat but it is a good aligned spell. Will it make my evil aligned PC more redeemable?!

Nope. Evil characters are totally capable of using good spells, and don't receive any redemptive benefit from it.

As you'd expect from Evil. They take something good and noble and twist it into serving evil.

Good spells don’t have any redemptive influence on those who cast them, for better or worse. An evil wizard who dabbles in a few good spells, most likely to help him achieve selfish ends, does not usually decide to abandon his evil ways because he’s been purified by the touch of the holy.

- Book of Exalted Deeds

[Louvaine]

Hidden: show

I honestly don't know if there's much else to those two Bigby's than their stats (img above).

Tested Dimitry's Final Flare. Feels like Fireburst with large AoE and knockdown. It doesn't affect the caster, but it does affect allies (my summon, in that instance).

Tested Tiramael's Energy Spheres. The AoE is like Issac's Greater Missile storm, but it actually hits only one target. It can be used via selecting enemy, which seems like most efficient way.

If you'd like to experiment my door is always open, I'd be happy to scribe stuff for your enjoyment.

[Rhifox]

I'd probably do Forceful. I think you can still act with Grasping? You just can't move? Not sure.

Also, you can Quicken Forceful.

[Glowfire]

Nope. Evil characters are totally capable of using good spells, and don't receive any redemptive benefit from it.

As you'd expect from Evil. They take something good and noble and twist it into serving evil.

Good spells don’t have any redemptive influence on those who cast them, for better or worse. An evil wizard who dabbles in a few good spells, most likely to help him achieve selfish ends, does not usually decide to abandon his evil ways because he’s been purified by the touch of the holy.

- Book of Exalted Deeds

That's pretty neat, thank you for the clarification. I was actually wondering if there was some kind of lore-view on that. It's not like anyone will call out 'THEY ARE USING GOOD SPELLS' when someone casts a good-aligned spell, like they might do in the case of evil ones.

Hidden: show

I honestly don't know if there's much else to those two Bigby's than their stats (img above).

Tested Dimitry's Final Flare. Feels like Fireburst with large AoE and knockdown. It doesn't affect the caster, but it does affect allies (my summon, in that instance).

Tested Tiramael's Energy Spheres. The AoE is like Issac's Greater Missile storm, but it actually hits only one target. It can be used via selecting enemy, which seems like most efficient way.

If you'd like to experiment my door is always open, I'd be happy to scribe stuff for your enjoyment.

The checks the respective spell makes is supposed to be different. BG has changed Bigby 6 to be less like an 'I win'-button. So I'm not sure now how it compares to something like Bigby 7.

nwn2 wiki goes into the numbers a bit more but I'm not sure if BG uses those.
Bigby 6 and Bigby 7

I appreciate the testing done! The instances my PC would be without allies and retort to something like Dimitry's Final Flare seem very slim (knowing me, I'd hit my party members), and Tiramael's seems worse than Isaac's Greater Missile Storm at the same level, as it's single target.

[Rhifox]

The checks the respective spell makes is supposed to be different. BG has changed Bigby 6 to be less like an 'I win'-button. So I'm not sure now how it compares to something like Bigby 7.

nwn2 wiki goes into the numbers a bit more but I'm not sure if BG uses those.
Bigby 6 and Bigby 7

Numbers:

BG-specific numbers for Bigby 6 are given here: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... ceful_Hand

[Glowfire]

I should've seen that was edited with the change - brain's a bit slow today (well, it is all days).

One is a bull rush with knockdown and the other a grapple. Difference might be in what you can do/use as you say, maybe?

[Louvaine]

One is a bull rush with knockdown and the other a grapple. Difference might be in what you can do/use as you say, maybe?

"A target that is bull rushed is knocked down and is dazed for the duration of the spell." - https://bgtscc.fandom.com/wiki/Bigby%27s_Forceful_Hand

So Bigby's Forceful Hand bull rushes. What does Grapple actually means? Like can't move? I can't find it on wiki, we'd have to test it.

[Glowfire]

I feel as if I should know... but the times I've cast these spells, and the years since...

If you need a guinea pig, I'm willing to lend a hand but I don't really have any active higher lvl PCs.