Experimental Druid/Monk Shifter

[Calantyr]

It's been a while since I've played, but the addition of the Shifter class and monk/druid multiclassing has me interested again. So here's what I bashed together:

https://nwn2db.com/build/?341865

Now I don't actually have much experience playing either a druid OR monk, and with the changes made to the server I'm not sure how well the two synergise. I am assuming that monk AC bonuses will still work while Shifted, and the same goes for Flurry of Blows.
I am also assuming that the Shifter STR/DEX/CON bonuses stack on top of a forms base stats (and this also applies to Legendary Animal/Epic Elemental Shape).

Can anyone see any flaws? I'm not sure how good the build is in general. Despite joining when the server went live on day one, I don't think I've ever gotten a character higher than level 24.

[Kalgain]

monk ac is not working in any shape.

attribute bonuses only apply to the shifter wildshape.

[Calantyr]

Well, that makes monk kinda pointless. Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Druid 5/Shifter 18 seems a more useful mix, although that's boring.

[YYA]

Well, may a speak to you about beasts of Malar then?

Druid 6/Blackguard 4/Shifter 20?

The DM and EDM damage will be cut in half in Shiften Forms, but 7+ Divine Damage with EDM is still nothing to shrug at. Add in Northlander Hewing, Flame Weapon cast with Natural Spell, etc... Use Werewolf...

And the thing is, you can keep your "Shifter" class as bit of a secret from other players, because...

28 BAB
+ 7 (Base 21 Strength with +3 item)
+ 4 (Weapon Enchantment)
+ 2 (Potion of Heroism)
+ 1 (Potion of Speed)
= 31 (Not the greatest, but it will land those EDM hits at full damage.)

[Terankar]

Spiritshaman 6 is better for the blackguard build, since you get Alertness free.

[YYA]

I think Spirit Shaman Shifters now get Natural Spell. Is that true? If so, sure, even though Druid will still have access to far larger spell selection.

[Steve]

Natural Spell for a Shifter is questionable, imho, especially if going Shifter 20. The amount of spells one has from a 5-6 level caster, are few, AND you'll likely be buffing with them once when appropriate, or, you'll find their duration so low that it's actually better to have some more "RP spells."

Flame Weapon comes on a wand, for example, with similar if not longer duration than a lvl 5 Druid.

However, if you choose to build a Druid 14 / Shifter 8 / Hierophant 8, you would have CL 29, and one or both of Legendary Animal and Epic Elemental Wildshape. This is of course a stronger Wild Shape shifter than a Shifter-shape shifter.

[YYA]

Flame Weapon comes on a wand, for example, with similar if not longer duration than a lvl 5 Druid.

How are you going to apply the Flame Weapon spell when shifted? Unless the spell has been changed from targeting just the currently held melee weapon to apply a buff on character itself...

[Steve]

Flame Weapon comes on a wand, for example, with similar if not longer duration than a lvl 5 Druid.

How are you going to apply the Flame Weapon spell when shifted? Unless the spell has been changed from targeting just the currently held melee weapon to apply a buff on character itself...

It targets Unarmed.

[YYA]

And forms tend to use creature weapons, which is quite literally an item held in the weapon slot, so unless the server has some scripting in place to transfer unarmed enchantments onto creature weapons... I do not see how it would work.

[Steve]

And forms tend to use creature weapons, which is quite literally an item held in the weapon slot, so unless the server has some scripting in place to transfer unarmed enchantments onto creature weapons... I do not see how it would work.

For Wildshape and Shiftershape, all Unarmed feats—usually granted through Fighter or an Item—become Creature feats when in shape. Look at the Wiki on Wildshaping.

[YYA]

And Flame Weapon in stock NWN2 is a spell that can only apply its effect on a weapon, or a creature weapon. Also feats are not the same as spells...

So unless you have a Shifter character that can cast the Flame Weapon on her fists, which would mean that the spell has been changed on this server beyond merely applying to all Wildshape forms, and that the spell remains in effect after assuming one of the Shifter forms, which will equip different creature weapons on the character... why cannot you just say so?

[Steve]

... why cannot you just say so?

Because I don’t make monkeys, I just train ‘em.

[YYA]

So in other words, you have no idea whatsoever -- and as before -- you get yourself into a bit of an argument, and once you realize you might be in the wrong; you get snarky about it.

Whether the Flame/Forst Weapon re-applies itself or, I would still advocate for Natural Spell to be used with the Shifter forms. For one thing, it is less hassle to transform back and forth, and potentially revealing your character's face and appearance to others -- in case someone plays a more secretive Shifter -- and if your AC/Physical stats are stronger in Shifter forms, if dispelled, you can rebuff with your stronger stats active. I have played a Sorcerer Shapeshifter on this server even before the Polymorph changes were applied, and the default forms can be quite squishy indeed.

But if we get back to the Druid 5/Monk 5/Shifter 5, the Monk AC may not apply while in Shifter form, but it does apply when outside of it, and let us look at a typical Monk 30 AB:

22 (BAB)
+ 10 (Wisdom from Intuitive Attack)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
= 36

Our Druid/Monk/Shifter, outside of Shifter forms could easily have the following:
26 (BAB)
+ 5 (Base 16 Strength or Dexterity with appropriate +4 spell)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
= 35

Thus, if you wish to keep your Shifter levels as bit of a secret, you may be able to pretend that your character is bit of a Monk, and how that is all he or she is.

[Theodore01]

Thus, if you wish to keep your Shifter levels as bit of a secret, you may be able to pretend that your character is bit of a Monk, and how that is all he or she is.

Guess you would need a lot of disguise to keep your shifted form a secret