Teleportation Scrolls - Soubar

[Valleriani]

I had a bit of an RP session with Vesak, but I want to bring this up here.

I believe that teleportation scrolls (and anything associated with them, I.E. mark rune) should be in Soubar. Simply put there is no real easy way for 'proper evil' to get them, bar finding them on auctions right now. Candlekeep is probably the closest place and even still I'm not sure everyone is welcome there too, it's in a rather inconvenient spot for some. Sshamath is rough to get too but even they have their rules, BG is obviously barred to most evil.

Vesak could sell them (possibly with a slightly higher fee then Candlekeep?), which would probably work out fine. Just figured for QoL on Team Surface Evil it would be a fairly nice thing to have as for most other players have access to it.

[Rhifox]

I'd rather remove them from the other stores. Teleportation is far, far too rampant on the server, and we don't want to increase the QoL of it. Quite the opposite.

I don't see any reason to add them to Soubar. You have just listed multiple other locations where they can be acquired.

Things being on stores also takes away from player economy. You can ask player mages to craft them for you in bulk.

[DM Winter]

I'd rather remove them from the other stores. Teleportation is far, far too rampant on the server, and we don't want to increase the QoL of it. Quite the opposite.

I don't see any reason to add them to Soubar. You have just listed multiple other locations where they can be acquired.

Things being on stores also takes away from player economy. You can ask player mages to craft them for you in bulk.

Hard agree with everything said here, if its about fairness I'd rather remove it from existing stores than add it to more.

[Titania_1]

Not only that, but technically you're supposed to have an rp reason to go to the underdark. If that's the only place evil-aligned people can acquire that scroll safely, that puts evil-aligned players at more of a disadvantage than good-aligned players who have safe access to two places.

I think it makes sense that evil players would have a place on the surface to acquire the same type of scrolls good/neutral players have access to.

If teleportation scrolls are removed, I guess it solves the issue of "rampant teleportation", but it leaves evil characters at even more of a disadvantage. Good-aligned players still have access to more players and the Candlekeep organization and its players to acquire scrolls from. What is the evil equivalent of that magnitude on the surface, or even the underdark? Just seems like it solves one problem but pushes another level of difficulty onto playing evil characters, because there's so few characters as it is on the evil side who will be available to make those scrolls for other players. It's both a numbers and availability issue.

[DM Winter]

Not only that, but technically you're supposed to have an rp reason to go to the underdark.

Thats not reaaaally a thing anymore, also anyway "I want to buy magical stuff" is a valid reason to go to sshamath, it is a hub of magical items and components after all.

If teleportation scrolls are removed, I guess it solves the issue of "rampant teleportation", but it leaves evil characters at even more of a disadvantage. Good-aligned players still have access to more players and the Candlekeep organization and its players to acquire scrolls from. What is the evil equivalent of that magnitude on the surface, or even the underdark? Just seems like it solves one problem but pushes another level of difficulty onto playing evil characters, because there's so few characters as it is on the evil side who will be available to make those scrolls for other players. It's both a numbers and availability issue.

There are definitely not a shortage of characters willing to trade with the "evil side". And I mean, if anything those scrolls can be put on the auction house and anyone would be able to buy them. It's only a "numbers" issue because a market for it doesnt really exist, since ppl just buy it from stores. If wands were on stores it'd be the same thing, for example. I'd go so far as to say that removing TP scrolls from stores would benefit the "evil side"

[Rhifox]

Candlekeep is neutral. Any player, good or evil, can visit Candlekeep. Drow and full orcs have some issues with CK (unless that's been changed), but otherwise anyone is allowed in.

Even BG is technically neutral, as long as a character (or guild he's in) isn't specifically banned.

And that's ignoring that the server rules support buying from shops with OOC tag up (something I disagree with personally, mind, but it's in the rules).

[Valleriani]

If that's the case then sure, it should be done really if you want to make it more difficult overall through the realms. If it's not going to be touched then I don't see why Soubar wouldn't get it as well, as it currently stands though it's easy for everyone to get them bar certain groups who have to do the trek to get them. Most people are within nexus spawning distance.

Candlekeep is probably the best option to get them for 'most'. BG banned for certain groups, including certain warlocks *cough cough*, Sshamath is something of a trek as stated. I'd also prefer avoiding AFK tagging.

There are definitely not a shortage of characters willing to trade with the "evil side". And I mean, if anything those scrolls can be put on the auction house and anyone would be able to buy them. It's only a "numbers" issue because a market for it doesnt really exist, since ppl just buy it from stores. If wands were on stores it'd be the same thing, for example.

But this isn't the case for everyone to have to do, and making one specific group have to buy on auction house seems eh. (aka everyone gets them at spawn point but us) On top of this, Vesak is a illithid, they are capable of teleporting, you'd think it would be one of the things he'd have.

Obviously I'm biased here too, just making the argument

[Titania_1]

Maybe it's just the player culture, but Candlekeep often feels like it leans good. If teleportation scrolls were removed from stores, there's still definitely a lot more players available to a good-aligned players for acquiring scrolls than an evil player. I think that needs to be acknowledged at the very least. That means less time and effort is needed as a good/neutral player on getting scrolls in the game than an evil player who either has to hope some are being sold on the auction house, or has to hope the other players are online to make scrolls, or send out letters and schedule a time to meet up. There's less of a chance of needing to do these things when you're a non-evil alignment due to there just being more players available on the non-evil side to approach.

Maybe it seems like a small inconvenience to some, but it's still a difference and a factor of difficulty that some players experience that others who play non-evil alignments don't likely have to. And if there is hope of fostering a more balanced play set of good vs. evil in the future, leveling the playing field with acknowledging small (that can actually become significant) disadvantages like these might encourage more balanced play.

[DM Winter]

But this isn't the case for everyone to have to do, and making one specific group have to buy on auction house seems eh.

well in my scenario they're gone from stores, so EVERYONE has to either get them from auction houses or comission another PC to do it, and the base value would be the value of scribing the scroll.

[DaloLorn]

I'm going to side with the "inconsistency is bad" crowd here and say we should either add them to Vesak or remove them from other vendors. Don't have much of an opinion on which one it should be, though.

[GholaMan]

So on server 2 you either have to take a trip to the underdark or swap servers to get teleportation scrolls. And the argument against it is that there are already too many ways to get teleportation scrolls? What?

As far as the player economy goes no one wants to sit around with their wizard and make stacks of scrolls. If people wanted to do that there would be more stacks of scrolls on the auction house, there are not stacks of scrolls often on the auction house. And you may say, well GholaMan that is because there are so many scrolls available from merchants why would people make them.

Well as someone who has been an active participant in the player market since I joined the server there has always been an issue regarding scrolls. The biggest consumer of scrolls are actually wizards who are leveling, then characters with UMD. However there is a big difference to note between the two, people with UMD only want specific spells on scrolls. Most of the UMD market has always been with wands, not with scrolls. And because elixers are a thing that further degrades the demand for powerful scrolls putting the high level scrolls demand in the hands of rogues, bards and warlocks. So those classes unlike wizards who get scrolls just to get a bigger spellbook use high level scrolls for specific situations like energy immunity, etherealness, or divine scrolls like storm avatar etc.

Wizards need access to NPC scroll sellers otherwise their characters are hampered. Other characters can access those NPC's to buy scrolls but 90% of their inventory isn't even going to be touched by non wizards.

In other words, there is 0 demand for most arcane scrolls becuase most characters just don't need or want them. Because anything that isn't covered by wands is covered by potions and elixers. So the rest is just niche things for bards, warlocks and rogues. With the one exception being teleport, everyone uses it, but you may ask why? Simple, its convenience, I dont have to spend 10 min running to a location which is far more unrealistic in a fantasy setting than just having a scroll of teleport. Travel between Baldurs gate and Nashkel would take days to get there, which is more easier to digest your character sprinting across an entire geographical region in 10 min to meet your buddies, or just being a rich adventurer with teleportation scrolls?

[Steve]

What I learned in this thread:

1) don’t poke the sleeping bear.
2) Staff hates Mindflayer merchants!!!!

[Saharez]

On this topic I think teleport scrolls should be removed all over (Really all scrolls)

My thought process is that it's desirable to encourage player interaction with regards to acquiring new spells.


A side effect of this is that casters would then be able to contribute with effects that wouldn't be easily accessible to non casters with UMD.

[Titania_1]

Honestly instead of blowing this up into a multi-server fix, why don't we at least try giving Vesak teleportation scrolls to fix the issue and inconsistency at hand, THEN worry about the bigger picture of if teleportation scrolls should exist in stores in the first place?

It's a small, low-risk change that addresses the issue of this topic. If for some reason it ends up being a bad change, just switch it back. This is a mole hill problem that doesn't need to be approached like a mountain.

[Green Monster]

Teleportation is far, far too rampant on the server, and we don't want to increase the QoL of it. Quite the opposite.

I know there are a lot of people who stay online for 8 hours at a time, but some people only have an hour or two at most of free time to play most days. Like me. I want to spend as little of that time walking from place to place as possible. Limitations on teleportation are a punishment for people who have busy real lives. I plead with you to rethink this position.