Finesse change in latest update

[zhazz]

Custom weapon finesse checks now use NWN2 rules rather than pnp rules (that is, weapons on the NWN2 finesse list always qualify, regardless of the size of the character, except for rapiers, which need monkey grip to be finessable for small characters)

If the only exception is Rapiers (Medium size) for Small characters, does that mean a Halfling (Small) can wield e.g. a Shortsword (Small) in 2-hands, while Finessing it?

I'm asking because a Medium character wielding a Longsword (Medium) will default 2-hand it if their off-hand is empty. Shortswords (and other Small weapons) should, according to the size rules, have the same behaviour for Small creatures.

There's some cool interactions possible with eg. the x1.5 multiplier for Strength/Intelligence damage mod, and the x2 multiplier for Power Attack if that's the case.

[Green Monster]

Custom weapon finesse checks now use NWN2 rules rather than pnp rules (that is, weapons on the NWN2 finesse list always qualify, regardless of the size of the character, except for rapiers, which need monkey grip to be finessable for small characters)

If the only exception is Rapiers (Medium size) for Small characters, does that mean a Halfling (Small) can wield e.g. a Shortsword (Small) in 2-hands, while Finessing it?

I'm asking because a Medium character wielding a Longsword (Medium) will default 2-hand it if their off-hand is empty. Shortswords (and other Small weapons) should, according to the size rules, have the same behaviour for Small creatures.

There's some cool interactions possible with eg. the x1.5 multiplier for Strength/Intelligence damage mod, and the x2 multiplier for Power Attack if that's the case.

In the original campaign, a small character DOES 2-hand a small weapon if nothing is in the off-hand AND gets weapon finesse attack bonus while doing so. However, having actually done that in the OC I can tell you it's nowhere near as OP as that sounds due to the limitations on the strength of a small character. +3 dmg instead of +2 isn't a big deal. Even if you make an oddball build of a burly gnome or halfling maxing your strength at creation all the way up to 16, are you gonna then have enough points left over for your dex to be high enough to have weapon finesse make any difference? Nope.

If you're gonna build a high str small char, then as you raise str through levels the weapon finesse stops becoming relevant and you're just a tiny tank with crappier weapons and lower str than a human one. If you build for dex, two-handing the weapon will probably only give you 1 more damage. Of course if you get 13 str so you can have Power Attack you can get up to +10 dmg vs 1 handed without PA, but it's still not going to be as much extra damage as a larger character, would be with a crappier weapon, and your AB will be about the same as the larger characters. Maybe 1 or 2 higher.

[zhazz]

I do have some ideas that could make such a build better. But I won't delve into a character concept without knowing if that's how it works.

[Green Monster]

I do have some ideas that could make such a build better. But I won't delve into a character concept without knowing if that's how it works.

All I can say is that's 100% for sure how that works in the OC. And therefore that's how it works here, too, unless the staff have done something that makes it not that way. Due to the way, though, that the whole weapon size and str stat limitations balance it out, I don't see why they would change it, but obviously that's not up to me.

[Rhifox]

Custom weapon finesse checks now use NWN2 rules rather than pnp rules (that is, weapons on the NWN2 finesse list always qualify, regardless of the size of the character, except for rapiers, which need monkey grip to be finessable for small characters)

If the only exception is Rapiers (Medium size) for Small characters, does that mean a Halfling (Small) can wield e.g. a Shortsword (Small) in 2-hands, while Finessing it?

I'm asking because a Medium character wielding a Longsword (Medium) will default 2-hand it if their off-hand is empty. Shortswords (and other Small weapons) should, according to the size rules, have the same behaviour for Small creatures.

There's some cool interactions possible with eg. the x1.5 multiplier for Strength/Intelligence damage mod, and the x2 multiplier for Power Attack if that's the case.

Rapiers cannot be two-handed and gain no 2H benefits from Power Attack on BG. While they might gain the 1.5 multiplier from NWN2 (as that is a hardcoded feature), our custom power attack follows pnp rules and is not doubled for rapiers. Small weapons can be 2H'ed by small characters (and gain PA bonuses).

[Green Monster]

Only way I could see it being at all "exploitive" is if you had a halfling two-handing a short sword while being a swash/duelist build, but even then you're not doing a huge amount more damage, and even that isn't as much more damage as just making your char dual wield. I know that Precise Strike doesn't work with two weapons, but big deal. 2d6 added to each of 6 attacks doesn't compare with getting another, off-hand 6 attacks with a 1d4 +4 + half your Int from swash + all your int from Combat Insight. Just no comparison.

Would making a halfling swash/duelist two-handing and power attacking a short sword be a good, viable build that is fun to play? I think so. Would it be more powerful than a medium-sized char with two short swords, perfect two weapon fighting, and combat insight? No.

[zhazz]

Custom weapon finesse checks now use NWN2 rules rather than pnp rules (that is, weapons on the NWN2 finesse list always qualify, regardless of the size of the character, except for rapiers, which need monkey grip to be finessable for small characters)

If the only exception is Rapiers (Medium size) for Small characters, does that mean a Halfling (Small) can wield e.g. a Shortsword (Small) in 2-hands, while Finessing it?

I'm asking because a Medium character wielding a Longsword (Medium) will default 2-hand it if their off-hand is empty. Shortswords (and other Small weapons) should, according to the size rules, have the same behaviour for Small creatures.

There's some cool interactions possible with eg. the x1.5 multiplier for Strength/Intelligence damage mod, and the x2 multiplier for Power Attack if that's the case.

Rapiers cannot be two-handed and gain no 2H benefits from Power Attack on BG. While they might gain the 1.5 multiplier from NWN2 (as that is a hardcoded feature), our custom power attack follows pnp rules and is not doubled for rapiers. Small weapons can be 2H'ed by small characters (and gain PA bonuses).

I know Rapiers don't work two-handed.
The question was regarding a Halfling/Gnome 2-handing a Shortsword getting the benefit of Finesse, while being able to use Power Attack and get the 2-handed multiplier.

[Rhifox]

Yes.