Powerbuild 3 Level Rule

[nuthouse2k]

Ok so anyway...

What are the Pros and cons of removing the anti powerbuilding 3 before 20 rule (besides causing an apocalypse of course)?

I'm asking what would the consequences be in the current environment of classes.

[AlphaCentaur]

Ok so anyway...

What are the Pros and cons of removing the anti powerbuilding 3 before 20 rule (besides causing an apocalypse of course)?

I'm asking what would the consequences be in the current environment of classes.

People would be free to powerbuild however they wanted, instead of being free to powerbuild however they wanted but having to take a couple of levels they wouldn't bother picking otherwise.

[nuthouse2k]

Good point...

Anyone else?

[kellendril]

Listen you pretentious cockroach...

I know exactly what you mean by :

I am sure there are hack -n- slash servers out there that will let you build however you'd like.

It means pack your things and go because you're not worthy of playing on a roleplaying server. We the hardcore roleplayers of this place are superior to you.

That's where you insulted me.

Cockroach? How ironic. The guy who says I am insulting starts calling people names..

Well, in case you didn't notice, this isn't really your thread. You may have jumped aboard, but I was not talking to you specifically. I had no intention of insulting anyone, read on..

For the record, the truth is that I was simply mentioning that if you are not happy on BGTSCC, there are likely servers out there that would fit your requirements. Why argue and battle for a rules change on one? Is it worth the trouble? Usually, the answer is no, because there are lots of good servers out there that do fit what you want.

Now, on to the pros and cons as I see them:
I hosted a server (NWN1, but its still a server) for more than 5 years and I can tell you that these sorts of thing (asking the admins to change a rule) is really unfair to them, because they build the world to suit a wide range of players and with a specific goal in mind. When one or two of the players get a rule changed for themselves, it can have sweeping effects on game balance, server wide.

The 3 level rule is actually one of the more kind of these types of rules I have ever seen, most being at least 5 levels of each class, but then again, there was not a 30 level cap in place. The reasoning for that rule is to prevent obvious power builds like 29 rogue/1 SD, which simply happens so that people can take that one feat, HiPS. I know the arguments that PNP people use. I am a long time PNP player and DM, and I know well the differences between the mechanics of this game and the table top. In PNP, you have a DM who is working with each player, face to face, and controlling every aspect of the environment. This is the reason for allowing some of the odd class combinations. The other reason is because you generally have far fewer people in a PNP game, and sometimes need someone that can do it all, so to speak. NWN is not PNP. There are things that just don't work in PNP games that do work in NWN because of the limitations of the game engine, like sneaking out into the middle of a well lit room while someone is facing you, and walking right up to them. Are they blind? No, they are not. The game simply can't account for all the variables in sneaking, so it makes sneaking possible in impossible situations. This is one really good reason for a level rule. A DM in PNP would rule that you cannot do what you are planning to do, and so it is a non-issue in PNP.

A good thing about removing it? Well, I suppose it would make people who like to make powerbuilds happy. Thats a positive to some. I would not like it, though. The fact is, you can't make everyone happy. That's how hosting a server is.

[kellendril]

Oh, also..I am sorry if I offended anyone with my responses in this thread. That was not my intent, I promise. I am simply trying to make my own case in this.

[muffinFBSL]

The build is all the same so long as you need 3 levels in all classes by 30. 29/1 Rogue/SD would not be possible.

Pros: DMs spend less time sorting through build requests, characters can take the levels they want when they want them, whatever their reason be...

Cons: kellendril is sad his NWN1 DMing experience isn't relevant or credible to begin with?

Besides, when I used your argument about the constant environment and expansive player base to explain why Divine Casters should have some spell cutbacks, I was ignored.

[ThatPirateGuy]

But you're basically saying "why try to change things to be more enjoyable".

Why'd you buy the expansion packs? Changing things to be more enjoyable is positive progress. As I've been told numerous times, "Build has nothing to do with RP". So why should those extra two levels on the splash matter? At all? And another class after 20? Does it matter? Limiting it to "with DM approval" smacks of the same favoritism that "DM approved race" in the other thread does. So some people will have more powerful builds. Building ridiculous builds is already possible, something I know for a fact the staff is aware of. So why the limitation on it. You're not going to squeeze that much more out of it. If so, please build and link it so I can run one up on LOA.

P.S. I agreed with Muffin. I'mma go drink bleach now.

[limited_resources]

Not to critique this build in general. It's not the point. I will use it though for my example because my imagination is stuck at the moment.

So you get PTWF at level 21 instead of level 27. Thus you're stronger, quicker, and can level up faster.

I understand the point of this thread I think. It sorta sucks getting the staple feat of your build so late. But, I sorta thought that was the point. To slow you down.

[Blackman D]

is this thing really still going? honestly?

[kellendril]

The build is all the same so long as you need 3 levels in all classes by 30. 29/1 Rogue/SD would not be possible.

You are missing the point. I guess I'm not surprised.

Cons: kellendril is sad his NWN1 DMing experience isn't relevant or credible to begin with?

Enlighten us why your experiences are relevant, then. When you've hosted a server and had to deal with all the players whining about rules, come talk to me, ok? My point is, I've been in the position that the devs are here, and I understand the reasoning behind the rule. Hence my comment about finding a server that suits what you want, not trying to force the server you are on to accommodate your demands. Additionally, to prove relevance of my mention of PNP, you talk about how in PNP things are different. It is relevant, I'm afraid, to include that.

Besides, when I used your argument about the constant environment and expansive player base to explain why Divine Casters should have some spell cutbacks, I was ignored.

Nothing ignored, I didn't see anything to discuss there. Do I think casters have it too easy on NWN? Yeah, I do. I would enter into discussions of implementing rules for casters too, but thats not what this thread is about is it?

This is ridiculous. Its already been said that the rule isn't changing, so I suppose I should just stop posting in this thread. I won't change your minds, that's obvious. You really should try to look at the argument from a developer's point of view though. Go build a mod. Host it. Watch people find holes in your rules and exploit them, ruining the experience for others. It really is revealing.

[Rainbow Prism]

Kellendril is right. The Staff have already said that the rule stays. There is no point in dragging this any further.

[all_distorted]

Thank you for your input. The rule, however, is not going to be changed in the foreseeable future.