New Spells

[Rasael]

Update: The entry has been approved!

[Edit:] Also I'd be happy to help script things, haven't got much experience working with the NWN database functions though but if they work like PHP and MYSQL they aren't a real problem. Regardless of whether or not you choose to work with the spells and casting forms. I am an obvious proponent of including them though

Any thoughts on the Tome of Battle though? I bundled it in but you might not want it. It's a whole independent system from spells so it doesn't touch many resources other than your 2da's and TLK file and it might balance things out by adding maneuvers and feats for the martial classes. That way both the Spell Casters and the Warriors get something nifty.

The TLK ranges for it is well above Kaedrin's stuff so adding it is as simple as a copy and paste there. The headache is the 2da's and some spell scripts it touches of Kaedrin's.

As for my work. It's TLK range is directly above Kaedrin's but this can be copy pasted to be above the TOB or anywhere else.
2DA wise it just adds on the latest NWN2 spell entry and feats and hasn't overlapped. (barring any custom PW spells / feats not in Kaedrin's pack)

[Luna]

Rasael..there were pieces of tomb of battle I tried to pull out, but I just couldn't get it working.
His work is just to big and intertwined.

I downloaded the module last night. I'll look at your stuff sooner or later here.

[Rasael]

Thanks!

TOB: I know what you mean, that man really performed a Herculean labour.
For the turn based project I wanted to do the same thing but had a hard time trying to find a place to even start pulling it apart!

There's a PM with some documentation on the whole spell system and a few features I haven't mentioned.

Am hoping you find my coding to be readable and well commented.

[nwnolan]

Would absolutely worship these if they were added. And I don't even think the feats (Blood, Circle, and Shadow magic) would be that big of a power boost. Okay, Circle would, but don't only Red Wizards do that? So that could be limited only to them, and since that class is restricted to DM approval, it won't change the balance of the server because we'd only have a handful of people who have that ability, and they wouldn't do it to powerbuild since A LOT of RP is required to be a Red Wizard. For Shadow Magic, Illusion spells don't even have any powerful spells (only good ones would be Solipsism and Wierd, but Wierd requires 2 saves, so that greatly hinders the spell). And most casters don't have a lot of HP to spare for Blood magic, so that's something that won't be used constantly.

Now I'm still unclear as to what Permanency is, but I think it'd be a great addition to the server!

Oh, the spells would be great also, I severly miss the Sequencer robes from NWN1!! And Shadow Walk sounds pretty cool too.

[Rasael]

Oh you know about the Shadow Walking spell, that one is pretty nifty!
I'm still looking for ways to script shadow like effects in the instance area so that it actually looks like the shadow plane. There's also an encounter script that I can add.

You may like scrying too, it already has encounters anyway. Needs a visual cue as well.




Permanency is the ability for a mage to make any magic permanent. It costs XP to do this. Think of a permanent stoneskin for example.

Currently only possible on the PC himself and possibly friendly / willing targets.
Putting a permanent effect hostile Damage over Time spell on another player seems nifty but it will still be there when he relogs.

Dispel magic spells should remove permanent supernatural effects though if they have a SpellID attached.

[breteas]

*blinks* Contingency for mages? . . . Oh boy.
. . . oh. . . boy.

[Rasael]

If this gets added It would mean an overhaul of the spellcasting system. It would be a good time to also add in some Teleport systems and other utility spells.

Maybe a Disguise as Drow / Surfacer spell and a Ritual of Lichdom.
Perhaps Liches could even use the disguise as Surfacer spell to appear as normal surface people.

[Eldebryn]

I wonder about the effects if permanency actually...

You can't have an XP cost for max level PCs so what happens about them?

And what about spells whose properties change within their duration, like stoneskin-line (DR has limit to absorb), Mirror images etc?

Also that would make some combinations crazy like permanent freedom of movement, perma haste... I mean, it sounds more broken than Persistent which is already removed...

Circle/shadow/blood variants would be interesting though and most of the spells, though some of them are from 2nd Edition, and honestly I think they are quite overpowered and removed in pnp 3.5 for good reasons.
Scrying, teleport & utility spells like Alarm would be awesome though and there are no major drawbacks in them beyond difficulty of implementation.

[Larzs]

Permanency is the ability for a mage to make any magic permanent. It costs XP to do this. Think of a permanent stoneskin for example.

I am sure Stoneskin isn't on that list, I know there is only a special list that makes a spell be subject to this, not to mention you can just dispell the Permanency anyways, making it all for naught and a waste of gold and XP.

Permanency

[Rasael]

In permanency you only change the duration not the limits of the spell so Stoneskin would stay on until expended.

It costs XP which can be deducted by resetting your level if your character is maxed out I think. Good point though and would need to be implemented. Hadn't thought of this.

As was written by Larz these spells are removed through dispelling.
I haven't implemented that list you have there though so Stoneskin is currently able to be made permanent. In fact at the moment any dispell spell will remove them I think.


Another issue is that these effects would currently dissapear if you log out I think. They could be stored in the Database and reapplied if it's decided to implement this. That wouldn't hurt performance unless like fifteen people decide to do this all at the same time.

[Eldebryn]

Well, keep in mind that no one is going to pay XP for a spell like stoneskin which is going to get used up at some point anyway, or a spell that will be dispelled so easily (Permanent effects get suppressed for a few rounds in PnP when dispelled), OR a spell that will be removed on rest/logout.
Also:(I insist on that one) perma haste and other buffs are broken as hell. List of spells valid for permanency should be *really* strict and carefully thought.

Beyond that, the max level of a PC is a real problem. I do not know if max level PCs still earn XP but if they do perhaps you could have all the exp beyond that needed for 30 level added to an infinite size "unused XP" pool and drawn from there when using permanency. If the pool has not enough XP, no permanency for you . Sounds demanding to be honest, but you know better.

[Gottmoerder]

I do not know if max level PCs still earn XP but if they do perhaps you could have all the exp beyond that needed for 30 level added to an infinite size "unused XP" pool and drawn from there when using permanency. If the pool has not enough XP, no permanency for you . Sounds demanding to be honest, but you know better.

The XP cap is 528,000 which is what it takes for an ECL +3 race to reach level 30. Even if you are human the XP still keeps flowing towards that cap. And we don't have an ECL +3 race, so it shouldn't be a big problem..

[Eldebryn]

I do not know if max level PCs still earn XP but if they do perhaps you could have all the exp beyond that needed for 30 level added to an infinite size "unused XP" pool and drawn from there when using permanency. If the pool has not enough XP, no permanency for you . Sounds demanding to be honest, but you know better.

The XP cap is 528,000 which is what it takes for an ECL +3 race to reach level 30. Even if you are human the XP still keeps flowing towards that cap. And we don't have an ECL +3 race, so it shouldn't be a big problem..

That's awesome, this probably means that there is already a buit-in pool with the extra exp you gain beyond 30 level so using that should be pretty easier.

[Rasael]

It is possible to reaply permanent effects on rest if they were dispelled and the list of spells can be limited easily.
I left it free in the first place so people could be their own judge of what spell they find worthwile to have made permanent.

The XP cap doesn't sound like a problem after having heard this so it's all technically possible.

I suppose we'll also need a spell to strip permanent effects from a willing recipient in order to be able to remove them permanently from a character. That would simply be a database operation though, cleaning a table of the stored spell effects for a certain character.


It's up to the staff what parts of the package they want to implement.
I think the main concern is balance since we don't want Mages to be able to wipe other classes out with one hand tied behind their back.

I sense that most people think Contingency could be overpowering but it's only an Abjuration spell. You can't do damage with it. At least not in this version. It's not a traditional spellsequencer item.

[Rasael]

Just to keep curious people up to date:
The discussion is focussed around Balance right now and not making Arcane casters godlike nukers.

There are definetly some spells such as Imprisonment and Chain Contingency that could overpower mages so it's being examined very carefully.
Shadow magic and the other casting forms are pretty popular - though Blood Magic and Permanency share in the mentioned balance consideration.