Underdark areas.

[melzaren]

Their DC is 20+

It's 17, with the effect being 2d4 (?) con damage, which is applied at current health rather than full health.

20-25 fortitude save as well

25 for the myconids, 26 for the puffers, effect confusion

troglodytes which I never hunted and was never invited to hunt. By the time you can save vs their spells or make your spell-resistence checks they're worth nothing in terms of XP, and they can bring you down from 100+ to 5-10 hp in two spells.

They are CR8? I think and cast magic missile/lesser missile storm, as would a level 8 wizard

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, my point to this conversation is that in a low/medium magic PW with readily available potion stores etc these are balanced to the CR, but that's just my opinion and I've played a fair bit of the game.

How is anything you said raining on my parade? DC17 still means that my level 19 guy will fail 20% of the time and I'm two levels from epic and far beyond being level appropriate for that place. Means one in five fights I'll need a restorative and those odds are going to be way worse when I'm level appropriate for the place and my AC and saving throw are far lower than they are now.

As for the trogs, I'm more interested in the reality of the situation: Nobody ever goes there at a time where they're level-appropriate because all you need to do is get unlucky with a single spawn and you're dead in one round.

People act like I'm some sort of novice to the server. I've been playing 4-6 hours a day for the last month, been pretty much everywhere I can go, and I've played D&D for the past 8 years on many other servers, and I've never encountered a situation where melee was quite so sabotaged as they are here.

TheSpaniard suggested the crypts as they've got an easy-to-kill boss. Of course, what do you need to do to kill him? Go through a energy-field with a save-or-be-level-drained effect.
And that's if you aren't already diseased or level-drained by the things you face trying to get there. The wights cast a spell that gives them 20 DR which makes them invincible. I've got a +4 staff (+4 by the way is not low-to-medium magic.) figuring it must be 20/+3 DR, but I was wrong.

So what you see people log in on their epic clerics out by the crypts, then buff their entire party, then switch back to their lowbies and hunt it because it's the only way to do the place viably, or you'll see people who are crazy level-innappropriate for the area zip through it really quickly to hit the chests.

[melzaren]

The reality is I've got a level 8 Wizard that can solo the Umberhulks fine, while Troglodytes can kill her in one single hit. It's very much so a game of rock-paper-scissors.

This has been my finding as well.

[melzaren]

melzaren, I don't have time to look at them tonight, but I will try to look at this over the next few days.

Thank you Luna, I appreciate your time and effort on this subject.

[melzaren]

*He sighs.* Add the compound to the list. The deurgar fighters here miraculously have a mind-affecting attack just when they hit you with their weapons, of course, and they're two or three times the fight as the duergar mines with only a small increase in xp, from 13 to to 20 on my level 19 guy and 1 of their fighters gave my ranger and two priestesses fully buffed a run for their money.

It really is disheartening to be relagated to hunting in one area 50% of your character's existence. It's honestly as though a careful strategy was put in to place to make most of the areas a nightmare for anyone who isn't a cleric or a wizard. Another interesting thing is that while virtually every mobile requires a fort or will save to fight, the only thing that requires a reflex save is chests.

Then also the duergar clerics. First of all a thrall would never get spells from their deity, and the way they cast sanctuary and buff for a minute makes fighting them very very boring.

Also there's a transition in the illithid mines that links wrong, so if you go through a tunnel and then back the other way, you're suddenly in an illithid hive.

Here's another one while I'm at it. The duergar thralls have 15 reflex saves which is higher than they should be, particularly since they're fighters, and moreso since they're thralls.

[AC81]

I know what you mean Melz. I'm relatively new to the Underdark and it is tough! When you consider that most pc's have ecl penalties (some madmen even have multiclassing penalties also!) it becomes quite difficult to advance. Having said this, I wouldn't call for, or support a call for change. It's the Underdark, death is around every corner! It really reinforces the idea that two, three or a group of pc's is needed to be continuously successful. I've had two reasonably potent builds so far (neither were a wizard or cleric) and there are still areas I just wouldn't take them by myself. I seem to run into you in-game quite a bit and didn't know that you were having these problems. Adin'afein is 19th level also, so if you want to group up at any time just send me a tell and we'll 'bump' into each other. I'm sure it'll be much easier with two!

[Cubicle]

Hi.. I have a confession to make.. I have an addiction to the Illithid Mines.. Been lvling there since 12-21 and still lvling there. Sure I've fought Driders and Compound mobs, they're not too bad. But, I was wondering, how do surface areas scale to UD hunting zones? Are there areas that give more then 20 xp a kill at lvl 21, or is the surface the same as the UD? Do they get more DM-created quests as well?

(Getting 11-15xp a kill atm)

[melzaren]

I know what you mean Melz. I'm relatively new to the Underdark and it is tough! When you consider that most pc's have ecl penalties (some madmen even have multiclassing penalties also!) it becomes quite difficult to advance. Having said this, I wouldn't call for, or support a call for change. It's the Underdark, death is around every corner! It really reinforces the idea that two, three or a group of pc's is needed to be continuously successful. I've had two reasonably potent builds so far (neither were a wizard or cleric) and there are still areas I just wouldn't take them by myself. I seem to run into you in-game quite a bit and didn't know that you were having these problems. Adin'afein is 19th level also, so if you want to group up at any time just send me a tell and we'll 'bump' into each other. I'm sure it'll be much easier with two!

If something is going to be more challenging, it should be rated as a higher CR and we should get XP proportionate to it's higher CR. That's what CR is for. This way, if we want less of a challenge we go to a lower CR area. So I don't really get the concept that the UD should be "harder". Everyone should always be hunting enemies equal to them in CR. If my ECL+2 makes it harder for me than someone who isn't ECL+2, then I'm obviously NOT ECL+2 in reality or it'd be equally as easy for me as someone who had no eCL hunting in a CR-appropriate area. If that makes any sense at all.

[melzaren]

I also didn't even mention the basilisk area which is a fort-save or die basically vs every basilisk in there, and that's only 1 or 2 screens from the main hub. I could understand a zone like this off in the middle of nowhere, but to be a junction point between the other areas at such a low level seems odd to me.

[AC81]

I don't know what the CR for any areas is. I do know that ALL the NPC melee challenges of the Underdark can be solved by forming into parties. There are quite a few major guilds that are very functional right now, surely joining one of these guilds and adventuring with fellow guild-members is an option to proceed. I know one that would be more than interested in acquiring the services of a skilled person like yourself.

[Cubicle]

After checking out this map, http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20968 I found an area on par with the compound, maybe even better in the next area. Oghrann Ruins.. Haven't made it to the Great Hall yet, but i'll let you know how it is.. Wide open space, no winding tunnels really. Just beware of death spells..

[AC81]

After checking out this map, http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20968 I found an area on par with the compound, maybe even better in the next area. Oghrann Ruins.. Haven't made it to the Great Hall yet, but i'll let you know how it is.. Wide open space, no winding tunnels really. Just beware of death spells..

And flash mobs! Lot's of different opponents with differing strengths and weaknesses. That area can be very tough for straight melee'ers ... but yeah, the xp reward is good.

[Cubicle]

Ha, your words excite Benjamin Black! Btw, what are flash mobs?

:Update: The mobs in the first area are easy pickings. Only need spell protections from 1 form of mob. The casters die easy though.. But, deeper inside the second area, there were priestess's casting all manner of spells and summons.. Looks like they debuff too. Other then that, looks like I found a new hunting zone.. Stop by and see me sometime if you feel like XPing with The Beast of the Underdark..

[Luna]

This should be in the next update. Let's start with this.

First example is the snake pit. Their DC is 20+ I believe for their poison which means you will either need a con-based melee with steadfast determination or a restorative after every fight.

There are two snakes. One has DC17 for CON
The other has DC20 for STR.
I changed the DC20 one to a script that will only apply poison 50% of the time, and it will be a bit more random for what poison.
The max DC in it's list is 20.

Same goes for the mushroom spore area. They have a spore attack that requires a 20-25 fortitude save as well.

I dropped the DC a hair, and the duration a little bit on one of the spore attacks.
They did seem a tad on the high side for their CR.

o a lesser extent, there's the umberhulks. This zone isn't nearly as bad as the confusing glare the umbers use is usually short-lived and rarely will result in death. Their will save is only 15 which is still on the high end for fighters of an appropriate level, which again means fighters are out without a mind ward. My ranger could just barely handle it as I've got a 14 wis and a +3 mind-affecting set of armor I bought specifically so I could hunt there.

Lets leave these alone. Not every zone will cater to every build type.

Then there's the troglodytes which I never hunted and was never invited to hunt. By the time you can save vs their spells or make your spell-resistence checks they're worth nothing in terms of XP, and they can bring you down from 100+ to 5-10 hp in two spells

For their CR I'm a bit puzzled why they have Isaacs missle storm.
That is very hard.
And their spawn rate is very high for a caster type.
I'll make some adjustments here on spells and make it so he is not a spontaneous caster which leads to spell spamming.

[melzaren]

This should be in the next update. Let's start with this.

First example is the snake pit. Their DC is 20+ I believe for their poison which means you will either need a con-based melee with steadfast determination or a restorative after every fight.

There are two snakes. One has DC17 for CON
The other has DC20 for STR.
I changed the DC20 one to a script that will only apply poison 50% of the time, and it will be a bit more random for what poison.
The max DC in it's list is 20.

Same goes for the mushroom spore area. They have a spore attack that requires a 20-25 fortitude save as well.

I dropped the DC a hair, and the duration a little bit on one of the spore attacks.
They did seem a tad on the high side for their CR.

o a lesser extent, there's the umberhulks. This zone isn't nearly as bad as the confusing glare the umbers use is usually short-lived and rarely will result in death. Their will save is only 15 which is still on the high end for fighters of an appropriate level, which again means fighters are out without a mind ward. My ranger could just barely handle it as I've got a 14 wis and a +3 mind-affecting set of armor I bought specifically so I could hunt there.

Lets leave these alone. Not every zone will cater to every build type.

Then there's the troglodytes which I never hunted and was never invited to hunt. By the time you can save vs their spells or make your spell-resistence checks they're worth nothing in terms of XP, and they can bring you down from 100+ to 5-10 hp in two spells

For their CR I'm a bit puzzled why they have Isaacs missle storm.
That is very hard.
And their spawn rate is very high for a caster type.
I'll make some adjustments here on spells and make it so he is not a spontaneous caster which leads to spell spamming.

Thank you very much for looking in to this. I apologize if I came off as strident or unappreciative, the work you guys do is great which is obviously why I keep playing here and taking an active interest on the forums, so thanks.

[Rainbow Prism]

I disagree. The monsters are quite good enough and are decent challenge. If you ask for adjustment, you are probably solo player.

In that case, I would be surprised if someone tried to adjust monsters to help you or other players to solo them. You see, I play my character and foraging treasure alone in dungeons is her main profit as amateur trader. However, there is probably difference in how we play. You see, her target is treasure. She will not kill monsters who are dangerous enough to fight or fight for sake of something nonexistent thing in their mind as xp. It is hard, many gold pieces go in preparations and resources for foraging are taking quite a coin.

However, it is fun, part of RP and not as dire as you point out. The saves are not so hard issue if you looked through wares of simple players standing on streets and peddling. Not now, though, since I cannot play.

What I say is that monsters do not need adjustment and all you need is smart play with consideration of limitations and forgetting about grinding yourself to epic level. This is not why dedicated players sit in front of stupid electronic box and push-click through one and the same polygon terrain.