New laws vs warlocks: need clarification

[NegInfinity]

Hello there.

I've checked new rules, found some interesting bits:

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Let it be known throughout the lands surrounding the city of Baldur's Gate, that the Council of Four, the Grand Dukes of Baldur's Gate, list the Laws and Crimes that govern both Citizen and Visitor to the namesake of the renown Balduran, seafaring explorer and protector of this harbor. Herewith, the Gate will retain its tolerance and focus on fair trade and merchant activities, so that it remains a safe settlement for all that abide by Rules listed.

Justice in Baldur's Gate — City and Environs

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- Practicing Necromancy, eldritch magic[/i], and those Arts that are known as Blood Magic are strictly forbidden, punishable by banishment or death, as determined by judicial ruling. Creation of items or trade of such magic in any form is equally punishable.
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The Laws of Amn in the Towns and Environs of Beregost and Nashkel

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• Practicing Necromancy, eldritch magic, fiendish magic, and those Arts that are known as Blood Magic are strictly forbidden, punishable by banishment or death, as determined by judicial ruling. Creation of items or trade of such magic in any form is equally punishable.‏
-Races hostile, violent, wicked, and evil by nature, are hereby banned from Beregost and Nashkel and their Environs. Orcbloods of a civilized nature and that have business to conduct in Amn may be permitted at the discretion of the local Amnian authorities.‏

1. So, basically, in beregost, nashkel and baldur's gate warlocks are now illegal, is that correct?

2. How are characters that are already known to be warlocks are going to be handled in those areas?

3. Does "necromancy" include all spells from necromancy school? (death ward ^_^)

4. Does "-Races hostile, violent, wicked, and evil by nature" include tieflings? (^_^)

Basically, I would expect answer to #3 and #4 to be "yes". Need confirmation of that.

[DM Narshe]

1) Should have been like that the whole time. It's a pretty standard rule in most neutral or good towns in Toril.

2) Same as any other area they're not allowed. If they're behaving and not some hugely wanted criminal, they're probably tolerated as a visitor. Not if they take up lodgings there. Active use of necromancy or Eldritch powers in a town would still be treated the same as usual. Shouldn't be doing it anyways unless a DM is around to stick you full of bolts.

3) Not really looking to be rule lawyered about this, so the wording is generic. A witch is a wtich afterall.

Think about a necromancer and you're pretty much there. Any spells that take life, drain life, afflict disease, animate the dead, etc. Or if you're paleskinned and creepy and the captain of the guard just wants you gone and he calls you a necromancer and rouses the militia.

4) Tieflings are not hostile monster race. They're certainly inclined towards evil, but it's not a majority.

Races like full blooded Orcs, Drow, Minotaur, Goblin, Tanarukk, and others can be considered hostile and barred entry from most towns.

[NegInfinity]

1) Should have been like that the whole time. It's a pretty standard rule in most neutral or good towns in Toril.

The reason why I asked is because in the beginning of this year one of my first warlocks received lengthy explanation basically saying that warlocks are gray area. In beregost. Meaning that they're tolerated as long as they're not obviously evil (obviously evil meaning undead/devil summoning, etc).


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Thanks for explanation, will adjust roleplay accordingly.

[DM Ioulaum]

1) Should have been like that the whole time. It's a pretty standard rule in most neutral or good towns in Toril.

The reason why I asked is because in the beginning of this year one of my first warlocks received lengthy explanation basically saying that warlocks are gray area. In beregost. Meaning that they're tolerated as long as they're not obviously evil (obviously evil meaning undead/devil summoning, etc).


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Thanks for explanation, will adjust roleplay accordingly.

This is still true, and also valid for necromancers and blood mages. Enforcement of the law is dependant on the NPC being able to identify what you are doing as forbidden. So there remains a grey area in the enforcement of the rules. On the other hand that does not give player characters licence to metagame the guards by deciding what they will or won't recognize.

[NegInfinity]

1) Should have been like that the whole time. It's a pretty standard rule in most neutral or good towns in Toril.

The reason why I asked is because in the beginning of this year one of my first warlocks received lengthy explanation basically saying that warlocks are gray area. In beregost. Meaning that they're tolerated as long as they're not obviously evil (obviously evil meaning undead/devil summoning, etc).


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Thanks for explanation, will adjust roleplay accordingly.

This is still true, and also valid for necromancers and blood mages. Enforcement of the law is dependant on the NPC being able to identify what you are doing as forbidden. So there remains a grey area in the enforcement of the rules. On the other hand that does not give player characters licence to metagame the guards by deciding what they will or won't recognize.

The explanation I mentioned was given IC by member of church of lathander, no less. Also, nothing prevented you from buying magical license for a warlock.

So I would assume that situation has changed since then and laws became stricter. Meaning that "buying license" trick would no longer work, seeing that warlocks are explicitly forbidden.

Regarding ability to recognize, a lot of characters seem to know what purple fire or having glowing hands mean.

[DM Ioulaum]

I would personally still allow warlocks to buy magical licences. Just as a necromancer can purchase such a licence too.

Regarding the use of your warlock magic: that is what could get you into trouble. Possession of the licence is a way to bluff, to misdirect players and NPCs. The way enforcement works is that so long as you don't cause trouble, no one will care.

In Amnish territory that means keeping a low profile. Such as by hiding the spellcasting. Doing it in private. Even when you are casting from scrolls. Overall I don't think this rule change should force you to change your behaviour. The purpose rather was to clarify the rule. It was already enforced this way in the sense that warlocks have a bad reputation, like necromancers.

Consider the magical licence a money making scheme which doesn't provide you immunity from persecution by the Cowled Wizards. Regular law abiding wizards can still be apprehended, even if they own a licence and obeyed the rules.

[Ripplefish]

Hello all, I'm a bit confused about what is acceptable now.

Does the law now say that casting of warlock spells, or even having the hand glow on, is punishable by banishment or death? Does that mean that lawful characters have to turn me in if they see me using my blast?

My previous understanding was this...
Necromancy - we have to get you out of here because you only do horrible things
Blood magic - we have to get you out of here because you only do horrible things
Eldritch Magic - um... we don't really get what your doing so maybe do it over there please because unknown stuff is scary.

Is eldritch magic now viewed as inherently evil? Are we weed or pcp in the eyes of the general populace? Is being a warlock a personal choice or a matter of national security? My rp experience up to now has been that most folks are worried for me, that I put my soul at risk, but not that I am a personal threat to theirs. The new law seems to be that they do view me as a threat to their personal salvation... and that I should be banished if I cross the bridge without turning off my hand lights. That if I use my blast while partied up in the mines (choose mine of choice) my party should turn me in when we go back to the town.

Using the necromancy example... the same language applying... if I raised a skeleton most pcs would turn me in or run scared. Is that the expected reaction to warlocks now? Is self abuse (risk to my soul) now the equivalent of abusing others (I will violate your body for SCIENCE! or magic or something)?

Sorry for the ramble... too much caffeine this morning... just trying to clarify how I need to act around not just npcs but players.

[DM Ioulaum]

Eldritch magic has always been viewed as evil by the general population. The law reflects that. As a Warlock you would have faced persecution in Amn under either set of rules, if you were recognized.

But would anyone recognize your magic? So long as people don't see you casting spells or using your abilities that is unlikely. Players may know what you are out-of-characterly, but in characterly is another story. And the same applies for NPC's.

Players and NPC's are likely to recognize certain spells and effects more readily than others. In particular if they notice undead being raised and other such things. Your regular invocations don't (necessarily) identify you as a Warlock. Abilities such as the dead walk, the hell hound, and the devil transformation are what NPCs would instantly identify as warlock type abilities. Its what warlocks are popularly known for. They might also think you are an evil mage, but in either case you'd be recognized as breaking the law against certain kinds of magic.

[grymhild]

Does it make a difference if the warlock's powers are granted by the Fey Court?

[DM Ioulaum]

Yes because in that case you normally won't be summoning devils or demons or using their magic, and arousing the suspicion that you are are in fact a warlock (or evil mage).

The technicality that you are a benign warlock might also lessen the punishment if you are convicted for merely being a warlock (no evil spells used). But that largely depends on the testimony of others and your reputation in the region.

In Amn you should expect persecution no matter where your powers come from. Fey are not popular there either.

[NegInfinity]

Does the law now say that casting of warlock spells, or even having the hand glow on, is punishable by banishment or death? Does that mean that lawful characters have to turn me in if they see me using my blast?

If you're caught, and if your magic is recognized. IF.

Is eldritch magic now viewed as inherently evil? Are we weed or pcp in the eyes of the general populace? Is being a warlock a personal choice or a matter of national security?

Most warlock powers - majority - originate from fiends. Pacts, promises of power, cults, etc. Tiefling can inherit that power from lower planes. If you're fey pacted, then it is possible that fey your power originates from is also evil psychopath.

That if I use my blast while partied up in the mines (choose mine of choice) my party should turn me in when we go back to the town.

Well, they can turn onto you, if their rp demands it. But that's part of the fun. Sadly that kind of thing doesn't happen often.

Sorry for the ramble... too much caffeine this morning... just trying to clarify how I need to act around not just npcs but players.

In eyes of general populace, warlock is as horrible as necromancer. That was part of the deal when you picked class. Warlocks are conspiring with fiends, raising dead, doing evil thigns and their power is frightening (with dark invocations you get 6th sense and infinite fireballs, basically). Your job is to roleplay with all that in mind.

Does it make a difference if the warlock's powers are granted by the Fey Court?

The problem is that knowing the difference of sources of power might require incredibly knowledgeable scholar. So I wouldn't count on something like that to be useful against angry mob or even on trial.