Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

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freekender
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Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by freekender »

Steadfast Determination
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: Toughness
Required for: None
Specifics: Your physical durability allows you to shrug off attacks that would cripple a lesser person. Rather than depend on agility or willpower, you use your raw toughness to survive. You can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier on Will saves. You do not automatically fail Fortitude saves on a roll of natural 1.
Epic resilience
Type of feat: General, Epic
Prerequisite: Character level 21, Toughness, Epic Toughness
Required for: None
Specifics: You no longer automatically fail saving throws on a roll of 1. Of course, you will still fail the save if your result fails to equal or beat the DC.
So, basically my question is what the topic states. I ask this because I don't remember reading anything about Epic Resilience. As is not a Kaedrin's addon I suppose it's implemented on the server (please correct me in case I'm wrong). I'm wondering how would it work on a high saves char like, for example, in a char with Paladin or Blackguard lvls and with some extra buffs to his/her skills.
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illithid
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by illithid »

Steadfast actually works on fort & will saves, ER works on reflex as well as the other two. So whilst ER is more powerful it is also an epic feat, and so Steadfast generally takes the cake for better value
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freekender
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by freekender »

illithid wrote:Steadfast actually works on fort & will saves, ER works on reflex as well as the other two. So whilst ER is more powerful it is also an epic feat, and so Steadfast generally takes the cake for better value
So, exactly what I though :lol:

Thanks for the answer!
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Invoker »

illithid wrote:Steadfast actually works on fort & will saves, ER works on reflex as well as the other two. So whilst ER is more powerful it is also an epic feat, and so Steadfast generally takes the cake for better value
Ever failed a Reflex save on a "1" while passing the DC check?

I haven't.
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Karond
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Karond »

So, the game has certain flaws. Among them is that it doesn't allow you to fail on a natural 1 on will and reflex saves. It's a benefit we're all reaping.

This makes epic resilience kind of bad, since it only affects fortitude. Steadfast only affects fortitude as well, but at least it has the potential to give you a bonus to your will saves, is a pre-epic feat and requires less prerequisites.
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Steve »

Invoker wrote:
illithid wrote:Steadfast actually works on fort & will saves, ER works on reflex as well as the other two. So whilst ER is more powerful it is also an epic feat, and so Steadfast generally takes the cake for better value
Ever failed a Reflex save on a "1" while passing the DC check?

I haven't.
Then the question is: can this be fixed?!?

Or...is it one of those "bugs" this server integrates as a "feature?" :shock:

Banned for some months.
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freekender
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by freekender »

Karond wrote:So, the game has certain flaws. Among them is that it doesn't allow you to fail on a natural 1 on will and reflex saves. It's a benefit we're all reaping.

This makes epic resilience kind of bad, since it only affects fortitude. Steadfast only affects fortitude as well, but at least it has the potential to give you a bonus to your will saves, is a pre-epic feat and requires less prerequisites.
That's a strange bug but, at the same time, explains the "silence" around Epic Resilience.

EDIT: And don't forget that you also need to take Epic Thoughness
Steve wrote:Then the question is: can this be fixed?!?

Or...is it one of those "bugs" this server integrates as a "feature?" :shock:
It sounds me like another bug/feature/advantage as Expose Weakness...
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Invoker
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Invoker »

freekender wrote: That's a strange bug but, at the same time, explains the "silence" around Epic Resilience.
Actually, no.

The "silence" around ER (and Steadfast, too...) is explained by people having several ways to get the immunities they need without spending feats to avoid a natural "1", which is only catastrophic in few cases (ie: petrification).

These feats are just not efficient. It's better to spend building resources to get good saves instead.
Steve wrote:Then the question is: can this be fixed?!
Not that I know of. Not any more than you can tamper with the Stealth engine.
It sounds me like another bug/feature/advantage as Expose Weakness...
Not at all. Expose Weakness is a feat, and can be destroyed and rebuilt, or changed. Totally different.
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freekender
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by freekender »

Invoker wrote:
freekender wrote:That's a strange bug but, at the same time, explains the "silence" around Epic Resilience.
Actually, no.

The "silence" around ER (and Steadfast, too...) is explained by people having several ways to get the immunities they need without spending feats to avoid a natural "1", which is only catastrophic in few cases (ie: petrification).

These feats are just not efficient. It's better to spend building resources to get good saves instead.
I think I've been misunderstood with the point I was trying to explain. Just to clarify, the reasons of posting the first message are the following:

- The feats are similar

- In case the mechanics involving these feats work as they were intended (I didn't know the saves roll bug that Karond explained), Epic Resilence would be, in general, better than Steadfast Determination

- I remember several posts in the past where SD was comented or sugested for a build, but I don't remember reading any post in which ER it's mentioned.
Myrualae - Chantress of Doron Amar
Snow - Sorcery and carrots!
Gomez de Aguirre - The Fabulous Knight of the Mystic Fire
Uelaereene Sai'zzel - Once I saw the stars...
Lilly Sai'zzel - Stormy snowflake
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Bobthehero
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Bobthehero »

Steadfast gave me about +6 to my will save when I took, along with the no-fail on a one thing.

I'd say its worth it.
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Thorsson
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Thorsson »

People who know generally do take Steadfast as a "warrior" type, because it gives two distinct advantages:

1. It helps Will Saves that are usually lousy; the more Con you have the better the Feat is.
2. It stops you failing Fort Saves on a 1. Anyone who has played the game knows that you roll a lot more 1s than you should, statistically speaking, so this is worthwhile.

Tell me a Saves Feat which does as much?

Epic Resilience is a waste because you already don't fail Will & Reflex Saves on a 1 (hard coded and nigh on impossible to fix). So it costs more and is worth less than SD.
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Invoker »

Thorsson wrote:People who know generally do take Steadfast as a "warrior" type, because it gives two distinct advantages:
The high CON melees are the only ones for which this feat is attractive.
1. It helps Will Saves that are usually lousy; the more Con you have the better the Feat is.
Almost everything on Will can be stopped by a Circle vs Alignment, among other things. If you already invested heavily in CON and have WIS as dump stat, and you have that particular weakness, then ok, otherwise it isn't exactly needed.
2. It stops you failing Fort Saves on a 1. Anyone who has played the game knows that you roll a lot more 1s than you should, statistically speaking, so this is worthwhile.
It depends what happens when you roll "1". If nothing aside from petrification (because 10 UMD + Death Ward Wand...), then maybe no, it's not.
Tell me a Saves Feat which does as much?
You instead use Feats to cover other aspects, and multiclass to open UMD, or simply spend 20 skill points in cross-class UMD, or find items that have cast/day to cover your weakness and spare two feats, that can go a long way to contribute in making a character powerful.
Epic Resilience is a waste because you already don't fail Will & Reflex Saves on a 1 (hard coded and nigh on impossible to fix). So it costs more and is worth less than SD.
Agreed. Attribute points in the epics are better than that.
This twisted culture got you feeding from its hand
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And loyal is the soldier that gets slaughtered with the lambs
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Thorsson
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Thorsson »

When the CL fix comes in, UMD will be rather less attractive. Circle vs Alignment doesn't work against traps. Petrification isn't the only thing worth avoiding.
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Bobthehero »

And not everyone uses UMD (I don't, I hate it)
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Re: Epic Resilience vs Steadfast Determination

Unread post by Invoker »

Thorsson wrote:When the CL fix comes in
You'll be bringing your caster friends along, get HiPS or be crap anyway.
And not everyone uses UMD (I don't, I hate it)
And not everyone survives. Many need to be scraped from the floor several times per event.

In that fashion, you can even keep low will saves.
This twisted culture got you feeding from its hand
But you will lose that food if you don't meet all their demands
And loyal is the soldier that gets slaughtered with the lambs
Examining the blueprints got you questioning the plans
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